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1 hour ago, Chan Wong said:

How in the world are people supposed to afford businesses, wedding rings, apartments, super cars if we sit at 2/6 all day RPing or whatever your guy’s definition of RP is.

When things cost millions of dollars, don’t expect people to relay on paychecks to make a living. People will complain about the money making methods. So stop crying about it being an RP server. People still want to make money to survive fines + actually making a profit in the end of the day.

I will be blunt and quick myself. Not everyone should have a super car business or whatnot. It’s nice to have but again I revert to my previous comment of stop worrying about what you don’t have and instead worry about why your character should have it in the confines of your characters personal story. I personally think super cars need a price increase across the board as it should be rare seeing one. Just like in real life only the lucky few would be able to have one and definitely not by sitting underwater for less than a week. It should be a long term goal. 

Edited by Kota Taylor
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5 hours ago, Antonio Wright said:

So how would changes to the economy negatively impact your RP experience? If it’s a non-factor for you. Why are you lobbying against changes?

I've never said that changes in the economy would negatively impact my RP experience. My argument is that change isn't necessary in altering the economy to be more beneficial for criminals. There's a difference in having an opinion that something doesn't need to be changed and saying I flat out don't want it. I've stated before, even in this thread, that I would love to see new job opportunities arise in the city and I do believe they are slowly getting implemented. I do not, however, see a need to change the financial status of the jobs already available.

 

5 hours ago, Antonio Wright said:

My interactions are becoming more limited because scuba diving is non-social and is the clear money making king.

Without a doubt, scuba diving is a good money making jobs in the city. It is not, however, "king".

There are concepts to making money that directly impact the status of being "the best". As a simple example, while you're going to the store to buy scuba kits, making your way to the water, searching for that "golden spot" to dive in, then taking your time to dive with your tanks, return from the dive, and finally go around to all the stores selling the stuff you've dug up. . . another person has already, easily, made $60,000 - $100,000 driving a truck. "Time is money, friend." and scuba diving takes time in prep and efficient digging. Someone else has probably made an easy $40,000 (or more) in metal refinement. Perhaps they took the time to process wine or maybe they've been selling coke on the pier. All of these opportunities could have been completed in the prep time to complete a one hour dive (4 tanks).

When I first arrived in Badlands I wanted to get money. I saw the cars and wanted them. I was new to FiveM entirely. Learning each job and how to make money in Badlands, I created an excel sheet. (I love data, statistics, and things math related). No exaggeration - I would clock myself on the various jobs and each stage of it. It didn't matter what job it was. If it was available to me I took the time to create hard data on it. Each step, costs, profits, time, and losses were all put in. I wanted to know what the most efficient way to make money was on my own.

I've since deleted that nonsense. What I can tell you though, is while scuba-diving can be easy money, it is not the money making king that you or anyone else may claim it to be. There are better paying jobs (in terms of efficiency and consistency) out there.

-----

I learned the value of this city is not the money. It's the people. I personally know of some who are sitting on $5,000,000+ and "have nothing to spend it on" (their words, not mine) simply because they enjoy the story they've made with their character. With some good mentors into FiveM and Badlands, specifically, I've learned to adjust my priority and focus.

As I've said, I am not against change. I would love to see new jobs in the city and I believe the devs are working toward that every day. Just because I want to see new jobs and new opportunities, though, does not automatically imply I'm unhappy with what's currently available in the city.

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7 hours ago, keebler_mfn_elf said:

I my self gave up on all illegal activities, not because they are not fun. It is more because with the interactions that I have had in the past, when getting caught I felt that the Police Officer  just wanted to go direct to charges to minimize the RP, so they could move on to the next call, or they just power played me where I felt belittled and truly powerless against them.

All I can say, personally, is I'm sorry this has been your experience. Genuinely.

As a police officer, I have to uphold the law. When I directly witness someone breaking the law there are certain things I must do. They are necessary in the simple respect that I am doing my job. If you run, I must chase until it is no longer safe, the suspect evades, or the suspect is caught. Certain actions require direct consequences. If a suspect pulls a gun, for instance, I will defend myself and - if/when the opportunity arises - restrain them. There are 100 of scenarios and each require a minimum reaction from me in the name of me just doing my job.

However that does not mean I would shove my power down your throat or run you over with the book. Personally I don't like cops that do that. I feel they're on the force for the absolute wrong reasons. There are 100's of scenarios I can list as examples but the concept of the LSPD is to "protect and serve".

I've mentioned this previously in this thread but I feel that if LSPD took more of an approach to civilians in respects to RP focusing on "protecting and serving", then even criminals would enjoy their presence more often. I'm not saying let criminals get away with everything. I'm saying invest your time to make their time valuable and enjoyable in the city while doing your job.

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4 hours ago, Kota Taylor said:

I will be blunt and quick myself. Not everyone should have a super car business or whatnot. It’s nice to have but again I revert to my previous comment of stop worrying about what you don’t have and instead worry about why your character should have it in the confines of your characters personal story. I personally think super cars need a price increase across the board as it should be rare seeing one. Just like in real life only the lucky few would be able to have one and definitely not by sitting underwater for less than a week. It should be a long term goal. 

I agree with what you’re saying, a super car should be long term goal and not obtainable within a week of sweating, but you also said it should be rare. What about the rare amount of players that obtain one? They can’t obtain one RPing every minute of being online, they HAVE to grind for weeks to get one. So yes, rp and grinding should be balanced, but not only focus on rp and not only focus on grinding.

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I would just like to point out, there is a big difference in "grinding" and making money. The original point of grinding was that, there is a fair amount of the server's population at times, spending a whole storm cycle or multiple cycles purely running money, either avoiding RP where possible to improve efficiency. Or being underwater which unless EMS is needed, you are segregated from the rest of the city. Making steady money, by doing an hour or 2 each day of "grinding" is fair. But as stated, getting super cars within a week and their use of them is outrageous at times. There is a need for all sections of the community to come together now and improve the overall quality of what this community was and can be. Put down the grinding mentality for a while and just enjoy who is out there. We have a whole range of players from old to new with a wealth of RP experience and personality. Play FiveM for what it's designed for. 

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I feel like I started to focus more on RP after I obtained the things I wanted. The wedding ring when my character first got married, the apartment so we had a place to live, that first awesome car I wanted.

RP happened throughout the goals I set for my character, but I didn't come into the server at the beginning knowing what I wanted or even how "RP" interacted with this game. I think that's the same for a lot of people, and the natural thing to do is to find a job or activity to partake in that you feel is most valuable for your time. Not necessarily what is most path-paving for your character (like I said, I didn't even know what my character was like yet).

After that's found, the other things happen organically. Running that red light, going a little too fast, and getting caught by police while trying to deliver some peaches. Getting robbed of the few $1000 bucks I had in pockets, these are all things happened while learning about the server.

Genuinely finding a path for my character happened later, once I got a footing in how to play this "game". I realized the money aspect was just supplemental to what the RP could bring, and began to use them as tools rather than caring about their monetary value. 

I think there's a hard lesson learned when we talk about putting RP before grinding, etc. It's not a simple answer, and the only way it really can happen is by putting value on things that aren't reliant on money. But rather, reliant on player interaction. Perhaps the high risk, high reward of bank robberies or some new drug that is only obtainable in a certain way that requires person-to-person interaction would be a sort-of solution. 

I don't have the time to suggest a lot of things, but just food for thought.

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6 hours ago, Serena said:

I feel like I started to focus more on RP after I obtained the things I wanted. The wedding ring when my character first got married, the apartment so we had a place to live, that first awesome car I wanted.

Yeah I actually feel this way completely as well. It's easy to say money is useless and you should only RP else you're not doing it right whenever you have the things you want. Some people may really want a super car, and if they can choose to scuba for a week then get back to the fun stuff I don't really see that as a character flaw.

The point I feel like this thread is making though is that the people who choose to not just straight grind money, but instead RP via drug dealing, being a criminal etc, are being too harshly punished financially, thus they are unable to do the RP that they want without the grinding. You cannot tell someone with under 100k that the 15k fine & licence revocation & loss of a firearm isn't that big of a deal because it's about RP not money. That fine is a huge hit to their bank account if it happens ONCE. If it happens twice within a short time frame e.g. twice per cycle or twice per day or hell even twice per week then things start getting really bad for that individual, to the point that they feel like being a criminal isn't viable.

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Imagine yourself grinding hours and hours for money underwater, avoiding player interaction. Just to get that 11th supercar you really want. Then finally buying it and go roleplay! YEY! .... But there is none to roleplay with, none to interact with. Because just like you, half of the server is "working" on their 11th supercar. What do you do? You go get that 12th supercar you always wanted.

Thats my opinion on state of the city.

Edited by Victor

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11 hours ago, Serena said:

I feel like I started to focus more on RP after I obtained the things I wanted. The wedding ring when my character first got married, the apartment so we had a place to live, that first awesome car I wanted.

I think a lot of people have the same "issue" when it comes to this, and I do believe you were the first person to pop this mindset out here. I am almost like this myself, but I started figuring out myself after a few days of buying a business. That's where my character started evolving the direction I wanted it to go, and before that, I was just running around trying all different types of jobs and figuring out what I wanted to do in the future.

11 hours ago, Serena said:

 Perhaps the high risk, high reward of bank robberies or some new drug that is only obtainable in a certain way that requires person-to-person interaction would be a sort-of solution. 

Love this idea and would love to see how it actually plays out. I would hate for a bank heist to be abused or be an annoyance. It should be well planned out with the QA team and tested before fully implemented. Maybe even a cooldown for each successful attempt, and not just a single person starting one then cancelling instantly, like some do with store robberies.

52 minutes ago, Victor said:

Imagine yourself grinding hours and hours for money underwater, avoiding player interaction. Just to get that 11th supercar you really want. Then finally buying it and go roleplay! YEY! .... But there is none to roleplay with, none to interact with. Because just like you, half of the server is "working" on their 11th supercar. What do you do? You go get that 12th supercar you always wanted.

Thats my opinion on state of the city.

I actually haven't met a single person that only "grinds" and not plays the game. But that's kinda where the irony comes in, since if a person did grind all day, I probably wouldn't meet them. But I do grind for an hour or two, then continue to RP. I, myself, don't own a single super car, but it's my end goal to get one. I don't try to grind my ass off for 12 hours a day to get one, but my bank slowly goes up for each day, and within a month or two, I can probably afford one. You shouldn't brush everyone under the same comb, because I doubt everyone has the mindset of grinding for 12 hours a day to get their 11th super car.

 

I find a lot of people willing to RP almost at any time, and the people that don't want to just leaves the area. I wouldn't say its something to worry about, but yes, the best legal job we have is scuba diving and it's discouraging RP, which is BAD.

Wine is the second best legal job (?) and it's encouraging RP, since it's basically impossible to do it solo.

Kinda same with trucking, it's pretty okay paid hourly, but it's no RP in it...

 

But ALL illegal jobs include some sort of RP. Whetever it's meeting at cocaine lab, or meeting the police while selling...

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I have no super cars, none of my characters are even close to being rich enough to justify owning one within RP. One makes a PO salary and Iives a modest, middle-class lifestyle. He doesn't "own" his helicopter, but he can "rent" it. His sailboat isn't paid for, it's financed through Maze Bank.

The other is just a methed out cab driver who commits petty crimes on the side.

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20 hours ago, Chan Wong said:

I agree with what you’re saying, a super car should be long term goal and not obtainable within a week of sweating, but you also said it should be rare. What about the rare amount of players that obtain one? They can’t obtain one RPing every minute of being online, they HAVE to grind for weeks to get one. So yes, rp and grinding should be balanced, but not only focus on rp and not only focus on grinding.

In an economy based RP game, grinding should organically create RP scenarios for people to enjoy. Wouldn't that be ideal?

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1 hour ago, Antonio Wright said:

In an economy based RP game, grinding should organically create RP scenarios for people to enjoy. Wouldn't that be ideal?

It was a bit hard for me to understand your sentence / question / statement, but yes I agree it should, but when you are 6 hours underwater, it doesn’t create any RP scenario for anyone to enjoy...

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4 hours ago, Gasman said:

The other is just a methed out cab driver who commits petty crimes on the side.

I'd hardly call armed robbery with no pants on a petty crime ?

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For those that are complaining about the fines being too much for doing illegal jobs let me put it in perspective:

1.  Possession of weed - 5k
2.  Possession of Controlled Substance (Meth and Coke) - 8k
3.  Incidental charges for contraband (dirty money, lock picks, seeds, kits) - 2k

As I said earlier getting caught with those items is not what's hurting your ability to make money.  You have a choice.  IRL most of the people who get caught using or dealing drugs don't get into a huge gun fight with the cops - not all of them run.  That is where the fines start to increase.   You have a lot of choice in the outcome of your story.  Mix it up... sometimes the risk of the run can be a lot of fun... it's a choice.

In addition you have the choice to provide really good RP to drive your charges down.  You also have the ability to team up and avoid even getting caught by working smartly in groups.  There are a multitude of options that YOU have that can influence the outcome in many different directions.  To me the in balance isn't in the fines, it's in the attitude that you have to shoot everything out. 

Sometimes a little  bi directional understanding goes along ways. This does not have to be a legal vs illegal, civ vs cops, good vs bad topic.  If you want to grind to make some coin - fine, but just remember that the core experience here is to facilitate RP.  I use to love the grind of money - I find it fun and relaxing... and then I had what I needed to go screw around.  It's not so much about how you get to your RP journey just as long as you get there and don't constantly hide underwater or in a bush to avoid it :D

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2 hours ago, TiLLeR said:

For those that are complaining about the fines being too much for doing illegal jobs let me put it in perspective:

1.  Possession of weed - 5k
2.  Possession of Controlled Substance (Meth and Coke) - 10k
3.  Incidental charges for contraband (dirty money, lock picks, seeds, kits) - 2k

As I said earlier getting caught with those items is not what's hurting your ability to make money.  You have a choice.  IRL most of the people who get caught using or dealing drugs don't get into a huge gun fight with the cops - not all of them run.  That is where the fines start to increase.   You have a lot of choice in the outcome of your story.  Mix it up... sometimes the risk of the run can be a lot of fun... it's a choice.

In addition you have the choice to provide really good RP to drive your charges down.  You also have the ability to team up and avoid even getting caught by working smartly in groups.  There are a multitude of options that YOU have that can influence the outcome in many different directions.  To me the in balance isn't in the fines, it's in the attitude that you have to shoot everything out. 

Sometimes a little  bi directional understanding goes along ways. This does not have to be a legal vs illegal, civ vs cops, good vs bad topic.  If you want to grind to make some coin - fine, but just remember that the core experience here is to facilitate RP.  I use to love the grind of money - I find it fun and relaxing... and then I had what I needed to go screw around.  It's not so much about how you get to your RP journey just as long as you get there and don't constantly hide underwater or in a bush to avoid it :D

Well said, Tiller. But the listing of fines is a bit bad communication, because yes, being only caught with stuff on you might bring you those charges, but keep in mind that you most likely will be caught SELLING the drugs on top of that. Being caught selling, being caught with cocaine and being caught with dirty money on you is a big loss even if you surrender. You will lose all the dirty money, all the cocaine and on top of that is the 3 charges you’re facing.

Yes, some cops are very kind when it comes to the RP and the fact you surrender, but there’s also a handful of police that throws the book at you for complying.

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And we have a process to address officers who are going too far.    We can’t fix what we don’t know.   I encourage you to file an IA when this happens and we can provide coaching to make them better officers. 

And sure sometimes you get caught selling.   9 times out of 10 you don’t.  Again there should be some risk.  From what I see in the economy, there is plenty of money being made with the drugs   In fact that is why the admins adjusted dirty money   If you are constantly getting caught it’s not the fault of the cops   There are plenty that are stealthy and to this day I have no idea how they sell .

 

What im trying to avoid is the generalization.  We have over 100 officers and they are held to a pretty high standard.  Are they all perfect, no.  But they all work hard and almost all of them want to improve.  The few problems can be dealt with but I and the other staff can’t be everywhere so we depend on you.  

As the OP inquired about the state of the city I’ll close one more time by encouraging RP.  There is nothing wrong with all the personas I see people wanting to play.   You can be good, bad, neutral , but I challenge you to try more than one path when it comes to managing conflict.   I know you are all IRL badasses.  Show me some in character creativity.  

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5 hours ago, Merr Khan said:

City needs more Mullets. 

Now more then ever Merr, especially since I shaved mine off. Been getting mixed reviews on it Ill decide if I should grow it back out after the Wedding

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I wanted to respond earlier but didn't get to it. Hence a late reaction. There are as many interpretations of RP as there are people. But there is a consensus what quality rp is. Entertaining, immersive, creative, branching... 

When it comes to that. It is possible in any structure, economic system or frame but...

some structures support it more then others. I have to agree that BLRP could do more towards it. Offer more support towards it. This is not an attack but constructive feedback and sentiment that is shared. Even if it's a minority.  I also believe this minority are the people that care, are active on forums, do suggestions. Because they want this community to be home. They want it here.... not elsewhere. And that's great!! Ty boys and gals! 

At this point it depends on the vision, time and willingness to do so. What players do we want in the city? What are we doing to attract and keep those? What kind of stadium we building here.

Are there enough admins and staff to handle and follow up on rp? As RP support does need it's leaders to give it a frame to work in. 

I love this town. And i understand the loss of patience for some questions, understand the small staff numbers, understand that maybe the whole idea to raise the bar of RP in the city isnt that easy or maybe even a goal. 

But i also believe lately, we could be a bit more patient, constructive, creative and willing to look at things people mention with the best in mind. Even in criticism take it at heart and respond with solutions. 

Yes of course things should be shared in a nice, preferably mature matter. But i would like to hear the plans, changes, solutions, input, feedback this community has in mind to adress it all. Maybe we can discuss the topic of RP and our fine city in the next community meeting. Have a panel to adress, get info and inspiration!

Would any one b up for that? :)

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There is actually a QnA being talked about among staff already, should be happening here in the next week or so. Keep posted!

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Some generic words of wisdom....

"If you build it, they will come."

"Be the change you wish to see."

No one is forcing you at gunpoint to go scuba diving. At least I hope not :P

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1 hour ago, Kiloriffic said:

No one is forcing you at gunpoint to go scuba diving. At least I hope not :P

I'd rather put myself at gunpoint than go scuba diving

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