Wilbur Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 At the moment in city police officers are in a state where they know they have the numbers most nights to approach all situations. This is a good thing, as without the police this city wouldn't have a spine. It would be extremely lame if we did a Paleto bank, Fleeca, etc.. and there was no police around to respond to it. In contrast to this though, they know criminals will be expected to limit their numbers to a max of 5. Even if there are other gang members in the area of a situation with police/another gang those other gang members can not assist in any way. This makes sense in the situation of a bank or other interactions out on the streets. The major downfall occurs on gang turf. It's unreasonable that officers can go to create a scene, or respond to an active scene, and expect those same gang members to limit themselves to 5. If 7 officers, a force that already out guns normal civilians, expect 12 gang members to step down to 5 individuals to take on the situation when it's in their gang turf... it's pretty jank. Those officers know they are showing up with a force that the gang COULD actually match, but expect them not to. Even though they're all standing around ready to defend their turf they have to leave the area and let those 5 members take on the 6-8 officers and the rest that will respond inevitably. My idea of a solution: When officers go to a known gang controlled area, they should know that the potential for a lot of gang members to oppose whatever they are actively trying to do is a possibility. Maybe increase max active gang members in a scene within gang controlled areas from 5 to 8? If the scene started at the location of a robbery the max size would remain at 5, even if it lead into gang turf. If the scene started on the location of gang turf, it would then be increased to 8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 4 hours ago, Wilbur said: The major downfall occurs on gang turf. It's unreasonable that officers can go to create a scene, or respond to an active scene, and expect those same gang members to limit themselves to 5. If 7 officers, a force that already out guns normal civilians, expect 12 gang members to step down to 5 individuals to take on the situation when it's in their gang Idk if I'm reading this right but you should stay at only 5 in any active scene as per rules. If you have 12 gang members shooting at ones your then over stepping before pd gets there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McPikey - Fast J Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 (edited) Without revealing meta information, I can at least say this, PD should be matching force appropriately. If you see 7-8 officers on a scene with only 5 suspects, the extra officers likely came in to help with scene control after the shootout is over. We do send backup accordingly when officers go down to try and push criminals away from the area otherwise every gunfight would be a 2 hr holdout on gang turf. If you feel that officers overwhelmed you in a way that was unfair, an IA report with video and written detail should be submitted. Having said that, I wish we had enough active PD to go against a group of 12 regularly on gang turf, but many times still we have issues getting 5 officers on a scene unless its slow. There are special circumstances (raids ect) where more than 5 is approved but that approval is ONLY given by staff. Currently, it is balanced, I understand the immersion issue of having several gang members "benched" because of the rule of 5 but it's worked well for a long time, and to be honest, lately I've seen many gangs be able to take out a 2nd wave of 5 officers with officers eventually raising the "white flag" to allow criminals to leave. Edited October 12, 2022 by McPikey - Fast J adding more thoughts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HwRusty Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 46 minutes ago, McPikey - Fast J said: Without revealing meta information, I can at least say this, PD should be matching force appropriately. If you see 7-8 officers on a scene with only 5 suspects, the extra officers likely came in to help with scene control after the shootout is over. We do send backup accordingly when officers go down to try and push criminals away from the area otherwise every gunfight would be a 2 hr holdout on gang turf. If you feel that officers overwhelmed you in a way that was unfair, an IA report with video and written detail should be submitted. Having said that, I wish we had enough active PD to go against a group of 12 regularly on gang turf, but many times still we have issues getting 5 officers on a scene unless its slow. There are special circumstances (raids ect) where more than 5 is approved but that approval is ONLY given by staff. Currently, it is balanced, I understand the immersion issue of having several gang members "benched" because of the rule of 5 but it's worked well for a long time, and to be honest, lately I've seen many gangs be able to take out a 2nd wave of 5 officers with officers eventually raising the "white flag" to allow criminals to leave. +1 I agree that it's SUPER balanced at the moment, the amount of times cops break off to keep it fair has been alot better. When i watch cops stream on twitch, they are always talking about the numbers of COPS on that scene. Last night for BOBCAT, we all watched McPikey's POV, and he said once or twice that they DON'T need additional. It would become SUPER unbalanced, if you could use 8 gang members defending your controlled area, because if anything does happen. the gang have the advantage because they know the area. There aren't enough cops around 24/7 to make it a 8v8. Because that whole scene could last hours. I hate the thought of Police concentrating on ONE group for that long. "expect 12 gang members to step down to 5 individuals to take on the situation when it's in their gang turf... it's pretty jank" - I'm apart of BD and for the past 2-3 weeks theres been around 10 of us awake in prime hours. We've never had a problem of letting other people defend. We have a good system at the moment, and it's fair. We love to get everyone involved so we swap people in and out. No one feels left out when it comes to jobs / shooting as we have people that don't mind rotating out. We have zero problems with fighting against cops when it's a 5v7 If anything it's fair for cops to have 1 or 2 more than us. The gang has chemistry, the gang has plans. If a fight breaks out, the gang can decide where they like to fight / holdout out. that's why it's fair. I love the way it is at the moment. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rizz Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 As previous people said, balance is great nowadays. Balance is important from a staff perspective. People already find the current regulations somewhat hard to follow. No need to create radio coms like "Wait, can we have 8 or 5 right here?". People need to be expected to know the rules on their own and analyze the situation around them. Teaching this to every player would be hard. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timr Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 This is a point that has been discussed and rejected at the staff level many times, for the following (and other) reasons - Forces all officers to respond to a shootout, some would much rather RP than lay on the ground waiting for medical - Makes it even harder for smaller gangs to have a chance in a violent interaction. Smaller/new gangs are already disadvantaged in firepower, at least the field is even in manpower - EMS already struggles to find staffing. The need to provide medical for a minimum of 16 people on a scene like this would only make that worse - It is very difficult, as a staff member, to monitor a large scene for rule breaks as it is. Increasing the number of people on these “large scenes” would only make that worse 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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