Drug trafficking / selling

[Hobeiche]

I think it would be beneficial to RP if there was a restriction that if you manufacture drugs, you and nobody else within the same org as you can sell that product on the street.

It makes absolutely no logical sense to me that people collect materials, cook/manufacture drugs and then go sell the product on the street. 

Prices for drugs can then be adjusted to accommodate the transaction of one group selling their drugs to another in bulk. Requiring them to meet in secret to do large transactions etc.

Maybe we keep a few like weed and meth but the rest must be done in this fashion.

This would also potentially help cool the constant debauchery around each collection area as it would benefit larger groups to collect and manufacture drugs and then sell them to other groups or individuals to distribute.

Cops would then have more RP catching the criminals selling drugs and turning them to catch the organization that sold it to them.

Drug raids would be conducted more so on organizations than on the locations themselves as well...

Thoughts?

 

[N0ble]

Honestly, yeah, +1 

I like the idea you are coming with, and it makes sense, no one small would go into selling drugs in the real world without the support of a bigger organization, and it'd give the smaller groups something to do too, intercepting drug sales just the same as cops, I like the idea of it and how it is written on paper, giving an economy all over the city, as well as a thing for bigger groups to do.
 

[phvntom]

I don't want to be the jerk, but someone has to point out that it's already possible to do what you're suggesting. 

The way the drugs work in the city is to facilitate this sort of creativity. The community is given the pieces to discover, test, and complete a circle of trial and error. Time and effort goes into getting all of these things. The only problem is the community itself. 

Most want to have some sort of control and power over others within Role-play. They also want an exclusive way to make a whole lot of profit. All of the pieces are there for a particular group or a single person to be a manufacturer and double as a wholesaler. The problem is people don't want to do things just for RP. Some want some fruit for their labor. So they triple that work load and are also drug dealers/corner hustlers. 
Someone can already become the manufacturer. Someone can be the wholesaler. Someone can be the pusher. To go back and rework how drugs work [again] to mechanically force people into these "tiers" so to say, seems to be a daunting task and redundant. 

Everyone is free to participate and create this level of RP for their group and their constituents. Because in doing so, will also create opportunities and role-play for the community as well. It's a "find out IC" scenario, and people may need to prove they have what it takes to distribute but all of it is possible. 

Small steps to make things more immersive, accessible, and fun for the server/community. 

[Hobeiche]

Not a jerk at all and I actually completely agree with you in that it's already possible.

The thing is we already do this both with drugs and anything else we buy or sell. We purposely don't do specific things because it makes no sense for an organization like ours to do it all. We've focused business and outsourced what made more sense. 

The problem is that it's time consuming to setup that level of RP and if the source of your supply is constantly being raided because everyone and their mother decides to be drug lords for everything whenever they feel like it and others constantly ratting out locations, you have to constantly put a pause on RP while everyone goes on a wild scavenger hunt that honestly makes no sense and then rinse and repeat. Even when you rediscover the location it's probably completely out of your territory and if you are one of the organizations that rps seriously then that means it's also no longer a business for you as it doesn't make sense anymore. This on off inconsistentcy hurts RP so so much.

I also agree with you in that not a lot of people will sacrifice income for RP which always makes me incredibly sad because of the amount of missed opportunity these people don't seem to realize. 

Here's the thing though. Right now if we leave things as they are, not only are people not doing it but anyone that is willing is being punished by constantly having these places change hands and locations making it incredibly unreliable and inconsistent.

Also having openly collective spots to collect drugs always makes my head spin.

The way guns work isn't perfect but it's better.

I think if cops focused more on investigating gangs and less so on the random ditch or box in random place number 150 filled with endless drugs. Raids would be more interesting, dynamics around drugs would.be more interesting and gangs who want to partake would have to be extra careful so they don't get raided. Plus way more RP for gang on gang wars and action to be had.

[Hobeiche]

Sorry my last reply was rushed but I don't feel as salty as it might read. I'm clearly not considering the effort involved. Either way just thought I'd share and appreciate the alternative perspective.

[Morphiushell]

+1

[kapill89]

its up to you to want that RP and wait for someone willing to also RP that way. I had someone i would sell 2k meth twice a week for like 120k. do the math. they sell on the street without getting caught and making 400k. thats 280k profit. 

In the end, you can lead the horse to water, but you can't force the horse to drink it. You can give people everything they could ever want to do this type of RP, but in the end its up to them to WANT to do this and not as you said, go get the ingrediants, make it, then sell it with no one else involved. its not RP, its just grinding. Just like hunting.

[Hobeiche]

25 minutes ago, kapill89 said:

its up to you to want that RP and wait for someone willing to also RP that way. I had someone i would sell 2k meth twice a week for like 120k. do the math. they sell on the street without getting caught and making 400k. thats 280k profit. 

In the end, you can lead the horse to water, but you can't force the horse to drink it. You can give people everything they could ever want to do this type of RP, but in the end its up to them to WANT to do this and not as you said, go get the ingrediants, make it, then sell it with no one else involved. its not RP, its just grinding. Just like hunting.

So like I said, we do already RP this way and we do find the people who are also willing to do this RP but let me break this to you more clearly.

The way things are currently set up, and if you want to properly RP, it takes first the time to find all locations and then setup a proper system within your organization to safely collect and manufacture the drugs. This includes security from police and other organizations that might conflict with you. This all depends on what is available in your territory. You could go into other territory but that's also part of the risk to consider and if your organization is willing to do that or not. Let's take the assumption that you are willing. 

With the current setup, the entire focus of investigations or police work happens entirely within people selling drugs on the street and getting caught, and then people either causing so much noise at a drug location or ratting it out directly to the police, resulting in a raid that then moves the location and the cycle begins. 

Before we continue with this, let's break down what just happened with everyone involved.

Organizations willing to RP are sacrificing both time and money in order to setup systems and relationships around a particular thing. Then this thing get's abused by people not willing to RP and just grind / make noise around a random location. There's literally nothing interesting about the RP that comes with that. It's predictable and repetitive with no real positive outcome for anyone besides the grinders for a short period of time. Why? Because the focus again is on those people abusing a system and the people not abusing it get punished. There's literally 0 incentive to do things quietly in this because all your work in keeping quiet and being smart about it is just going to fail through no fault or interaction of your own with anyone. Cops are focusing on specific locations that are completely obscure and meaningless other than the unlimited drug pool they supply. 

What exactly is interesting about raiding obscure meaningless locations anyway? Why don't we just leave those locations in place and focus on PEOPLE and ORGANIZATIONS instead of "COLLECT LOCATION X". Who cares where the ingredients come from. If an officer catches you at a location who cares about the location, punish the person and investigate who they work for and go after the organization or better yet, take photos, follow them, get names work your way to pinning it on an organization etc. Raid the organizations instead of the locations when you have proof of what they are doing. 

This allows for us to disconnect the punishment of drugs from EVERYONE getting punished through 0 fault of their own because of some bad apples. It's literally the most frustrating concept for me that we have in the city. It also prevents the solo grinding from solo grinding as they HAVE to work with someone else to make some profit. 

As for your second point
"but in the end its up to them to WANT to do this and not as you said, go get the ingredients, make it, then sell it with no one else involved. its not RP, its just grinding. Just like hunting."

Explain to me the benefit of allowing this type of grind in the first place when it benefits literally nobody other than grinders which is something we seemingly try and reduce in the city. It actually seems you don't like Hunting in the way that it's just used to grind. So why do you want this available for drugs?

Forcing points of exchange between players in the same way we force them to do so with buying cars, houses, guns etc is literally the exact same thing. I don't understand this argument at all and would love to hear more on your perspective on it's current benefits. 

[kapill89]

"Forcing points of exchange between players in the same way we force them to do so with buying cars, houses, guns etc is literally the exact same thing."

welp, tbf. its hard.... iv been on days at a time where not one car shop is opened, so you just can't buy a car. Same with food (though burger shot has been opened like everyday for the past week) If you put limitations on something, then the people involved need to always be around, or your still gonna be screwed. Lawyers sometimes are difficult to find as well, and judges. So if we make a change like that, welp its gonna require those people that are judges, ect ect to be around WAY more and that might not be possible because this IS a game and we can't always be around. Hence things are not gate-locked. 

Imagine if you couldn't buy lockpicks or safe cracking kits just "anywhere" and had to get them through one group of people. Now what if those people don't like you and won't sell it to you. There are alot of things that can go wrong with gate-locking things.

Hunting is not a bad thing. If i ever needed some quick cash i know how to get it. Do i hunt everyday? hell no, i tried it once for like 25 minutes and gave up because i couldn't find where to sell legal skin hides because everyone acted like it was illegal. And it really wasn't fun for me. Yet someone told me where to sell the illegal hides.... hows that make any sense?

The "grindy" jobs arn't always a bad thing. It's a nice way to get some money quickly so you can pay fines for your crimes, ect ect. The problem is people arn't going to grind for 15-20k. They grind 24/7 hunting, selling drugs, robbing banks so they can buy all these super cars.

Your not gonna stop people from grinding for super cars, mansions, heli's ect. It's crazy that new players come into the city and WITHIN 3 days... they have a 2 million dollar super car....

As for PD finding drug locations. I would say then don't tell friends or people you trust where places are. You don't know who they are going to tell next. "Hay so i was told i could not tell anyone where this place is but..... if you promise not to tell a soul, ill let you know". And that exact thing just repeats itself and before you know it, EVERYONE knows the location again.

Edited August 27, 2021 by kapill89

[Hobeiche]

So I see where I may not have been clear.

I don't want locations to be locked to certain orgs or people. They should remain as they are. I'm saying we should gate the sales of the drugs you made. If you make the drugs, you shouldn't be able to sell the drugs to locals. If you are in an organization, none of the other members should be able to sell the drugs you made as well.

This would force organizations to create relationships with other organizations or individuals, and it would force would be solo grinders to at LEAST interact with 1 other person. 

Then remove the focus on drug ingredient locations and focus it on the people involved instead. 

It's funny because your responses make me feel like you'd actually agree with this but maybe I'm not being clear. You wouldn't need any one specific group or person to be available. You just need to seek out ANYONE willing and able that you can build some trust with.

"As for PD finding drug locations. I would say then don't tell friends or people you trust where places are. You don't know who they are going to tell next. "Hay so i was told i could not tell anyone where this place is but..... if you promise not to tell a soul, ill let you know". And that exact thing just repeats itself and before you know it, EVERYONE knows the location again." 

I don't that's the point. I still get punished for it all the same though. We can't control people talking, we can control who gets punished for it though.

Edited August 27, 2021 by Hobeiche

[kapill89]

i do understand your point, and i 100% agree with you. but i feel if that were to happpen, the only thing that would change is 80% of the grinders would stop making/selling drugs and would just straight grind hunting, delivery trucks, ect ect. 

The problem is grinders wanting to Min/Max their time and money. That will never, ever change. While it might promote better RP for the use of dealing with drugs, making huge drug deals/sales with other groups. I feel there would be less players as a whole that would care enough to buy those drugs from another person to create RP because its not 100% profit. And again thats the problem, too many people just want 100% profit and, they want it ASAP.

[Atryus]

I do like this, Its already like this with some other aspects of the criminal world which I wont mention, but those who know, you know. There are so many different drugs that the argument of "Well there isnt enough to make sense" i could think of more drugs than we have hard established groups. Also increase the price of them sold on the street but also add an effect to some of them, maybe one makes it where you run faster but difficult to drive, one makes it where you can take more damage (IE: Gives some armor) and so on, Also could make it where these drugs are far more likely to cause an addiction but make it much harder to treat or impossible to treat which would then add more RP into it rather than just *Go to EMS and no more addiction*