Performance Shops idea (not mechanics)

[PapawPigeon]

I’m ready for some -1s.

It’s okay. I understand. This is not a low-key business app in any way, I kinda just want to talk about the idea and see if there’s anyone on the same page as myself.

 

So…as someone who works at a dealership (LSC) I completely understand why this idea would be controversial, and I’m ready for that. But, I think that making vehicle customization separate from dealerships could produce significant RP value. Not only in terms of realism, but it would create a number of jobs, while being potentially additive to the “car culture” in the city, with the addition of a few new tools to make custom shops stand out.

Here’s my logic. It doesn’t really make sense to buy a car at a dealership, and then ask the dealer to turn it into a performance, race ready machine, or to do significant aftermarket cosmetic changes. What makes more sense is to buy your shiny new car at the dealership, and take it to a custom shop to get performance and visual upgrades done by a professional. I know it’s not as convenient for the buyer, and I know that there are some decent profits to be made from upgrades, and that would basically be taken away from the dealerships and given to someone else…and as a dealer, myself, I apologize for that, but there can be some re-structuring done that could keep profit margins close to the same. Lets get into some pros and cons.

 

PROS

More part-time, or full-time legal jobs. Whether custom shops are classified as Class A, B, or C, adding more owned businesses means that there are more significant jobs for players to have, when currently there really aren’t many legal jobs that are worth the time compared to no contact activities like hunting, And some of the WL only positions can take quite some time before you can get in, and people need more legal, and rewarding rp interactive tasks to do in the mean-time.

 

Next good thing

Performance shops would be a great medium for introducing new vehicle features. There are some really nice tools out there for additional car customization, and having performance shops would be a great way to implement them, while keeping RP in mind. One of my favorite tools being Vstancer, (We could "do alignments" for RP purposes) as previously posted by @Roughshaggy

"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FH4AfEfwnxc shows you what it entitles Download link: https://www.gta5-mods.com/scripts/vstancer That's mainly for visuals on how they want their car to look. Does no performance mods."

That mod alone could add quite a lot of value for car enthusiasts like myself. Some cars just don't pop like they should because the wheel size is off, or the wheels don't "Fill" some of the wide-body fender flares, or the suspension just doesn't go as low or as high as it could. (lift kits for off-road vehicles, please.)

Another shop implementation could be vehicle handling tuning so people could properly drift. Disclaimer: I have not had much experience actually messing with these mods, other than using drifting presets. However, so long as vehicles can be tuned in a way that doesn't make everything OP, make it impossible to modify the handling for better grip, or a top speed increase, or if we could possibly make drift cars useless for anything except for drifting (realism) then I believe those mods could also add loads of value to the car culture of the city, without affecting the balance to a great extent.

CONS

This complicates things for the buyer. Now, not only would you need to hope that a dealership was open for you to be able to buy your car, you would also need to hope that a performance shop is open to apply your customization and upgrades. Granted, we could always keep some pay-n-spray locations open for full price performance mods, and maybe paint jobs, but in-depth customization should be kept exclusive to the performance shops.

 

Next bad thing, and this is a big one.

Moving customization out of dealerships removes a revenue source for dealers. No way around it, its a bummer and finding that solution wont be easy. But here are some ideas that make the blow a bit easier to handle. First, is to simply increase the profitability of being a dealer, after customization is removed. Find the numbers, work out an average and modify the profit percentages. Second, Give dealers the option to sell vehicles with some top tier performance mods pre-installed. Realistically, if you go to a dealership to buy a sports car, you will be met with some options like factory upgraded brakes, and more powerful engines, etc. Dealers in the city could retain those options as a way to up-sell "Factory Performance models" through RP and increase their own profits.

All in all, I personally feel like the good can outweigh the bad if the ideas were implemented in the right way. As a dealer, and a customer I would be willing to accept the downsides in return for more significant jobs in the city, more cool businesses establishments, and a more dynamic car culture in Badlands.

Edited February 10, 2022 by ThrashSlingingSlasher

[KlassickG]

I like this idea. I think that one thing that has stood out to me in the city is the lack of diversity of the cars that we have. Sure every once in a while someone's daily driver will be different from most other things and there will occasionally be a super rare car like the GTR or the supra that will catch people's eye but they are outliers. They stand out because most everyone is driving the same off-road vehicle or the same looking sports car around. The only ones that truly stand out are the super cars and that's just not how it is IRL. The only major hurdle is ensuring that there would not be ridiculous cars that just do not make sense. For instance you can lift a Vagrant an extra 6 inches but it should not be able to sit at eye level with a Sandking XL. That would have to be something that is taken into consideration when/if these tools are implemented.

The main benefit I see is that this would undoubtedly increase interactions and could lead to the car groups that are already in the city a way to express the things that they care about in a new and interesting way. I am normally not a fan of simply removing something from one place to put it somewhere else UNLESS it also adds to the overall interaction on the server. Moreover there could be a reworking of how the upgrade system works because as it currently stands I can upgrade my Bobcat for the same price as a Ram for instance.

The big consideration for me is the impact it will have on dealerships. Obviously there was the recent-ish addition of the the cap on the profit of each car sales at dealerships. Car sales should be a monetary rewarding job because it often requires quite a bit of the people that are employed. All dealerships are Class A so every employee has to be completely legal. Moreover my understanding is that most dealerships will also require whitelisting to be employed as well.

Assuming that the profit and interactions of the dealerships are maintained to a certain degree this gets a +1 from me. Cars are fairly static as they stand and this could give many people a completely new avenue to express themselves and form relationships with others in the city

[Woody Rattleson]

+1

[Mo Stills]

+1

[PapawPigeon]

@KlassickG Big facts about reworking the upgrades system to be based on the price of the vehicle. It costs the same whether you’re  upgrading a panto, or an x80, and something could be done about it. A scaling system would also add some aftermarket value to upgrading more expensive cars, whereas right now, aftermarket value on anything is basically just sticker price and below. Make it more expensive and people will be more inclined to pay more for the upgrades during private sales.

[lords8n]

+1

I heard Hayes Auto is looking to expand into the performance upgrade market

[Mo Stills]

This would be awesome and makes a ton of sense.

[Samantha Hatfield]

I've been wanting this for a long time, It would be nice to see a customs shop like Route 68 open and bringing more RP. +1

[Cleatus McCoy]

I was working with the city to try and get theses ideas motioned forward.. They came to me agreeing with the remodel and other possibility's. I did what they wanted me to do. I busted my ass off cleaning up Elgin and making it a presentable business.  All they did is get my sprits high then curbs smash me and deny me what we have agreed and talked about.  They never came to me telling me why they changed their mind.  If it was location related I had other possibility's on other building to make the performance shop a reality. They never gave me any options.  I think the city don't really care for car performance mods cause cops just cry about the crims always getting away so they decrease the performance on cars that the  crim are using and the cops are still crying cause the crims keep getting away. I have certain mods already purchased building blueprints purchased as well. i had every file they needed for them. so they didn't have to go out of their way to find and purchase them. all they had to do is implement them on the test server to see how things perform. 

[Razec]

The performance upgrade current scenario, within vehicular sales and dealership jobs, is mainly focused on player's choice. It's highly mechanical and leaves almost no room for RP as is. People already get the full perfomance package for their vehicles. There rarely is any middle ground.

Cosmetically upgrading a car is mostly you sitting there showing the multiple choices someone could make and eventually adding up a total, getting your money and off the customer goes. 

It's also one of the most profitable sides of the dealership job, as said above. 

If not reworked entirely, I don't see a reason to make it a separate business. 

What that mod does makes the process even more mechanically complicated, making it entirely less RP friendly, since it'll be mostly focused on the menu rather than the interaction you are proposing.

However, I do have a suggestion that could ideally boost RP. What if owned businesses could supply dealerships with parts for the upgrades? If not decently supplied, dealerships would be blocked from doing upgrades, limiting the customers as well. I'm in fact very interested in this mainly because of supply and demand. This will allow dealerships to fluctuate pricing based on demand and these particular shops to benefit more in return. It'll certainly increase RPable interactions, adding a new dynamic to how it all works.

 

Edited February 10, 2022 by Razec

[Valkariun]

+1 to this. Would like to see the existing performance shops such as the "Pay and Spray", "Benny's Motorworks", and others have some more use to them other than a one-stop shop. Would also give more jobs to civilians, as mentioned above.

[PapawPigeon]

@Razec I suppose that I could replace "RP" with "player interaction" in some instances. With that being said, the RP/player interaction involved in assisting a customer with customization isn't as cut and dry, or mechanical in my experience, and you can make it pretty fun for the customer, but that's fairly dependent on the dealer who's doing the work. I actually take a lot pride in the upgrading part of my business. Sure, there are players who come in, get the performance features, paint everything black and nearly forget to pay on their way out. However, with a little effort its not hard to make someone's upgrading experience feel personal and rewarding to them.

9 times out of 10, I'm spending 30 minutes or more interacting with a customer, trying to help them along with building their new car. Not because they're indecisive, but we go over all of the options, we figure out what is realistically in their budget and we may try a few different looks before we can really nail down what the customer is going to be happy with. But then again, I'm not the type of person to just let the customer get in the car and make a list of the things that they want so they can read it off to me. The reason for that is because putting a car together by going down the line and picking pieces doesn't always produce the best looking results. Plus, the amount of customers that are open to your suggestion is surprising.

For instance if they want to have a small and reserved rear spoiler, but they want a big crazy time-attack front bumper, the visuals might not really flow well and you as the employee can mention that to them. Then there are all of the "secondary" painted parts that a lot of people tend to skip over because they painted the car before customizing, and it doesn't look good with the colors that they went with, so they miss out of some really cool options. You can mention that to them as well. Most of the time, they will change their mind based on your suggestion...or you can just slap it together and send it out the door looking like a parts bin got bolted on, but I don't like doing that.

In my opinion, VStancer, or similar mods would work in the same way and, definitely be additive to the experience, it's all dependent on the person who is providing the experience.

[Amybos]

I get where you are coming from. But if upgrades become separate from dealerships, then the only interaction and RP situation a dealership will get is when selling the car. 

Thrash, like you would know, at times those interactions don’t come around so much, you can be standing around for ages without customers and when you do have someone, you try to make that the most out of that situation and you get the RP from both selling the car AND helping them with creating a car that they love and want to show off.

Like many others in the field, I value the RP with sales as well as being able to assist someone have the car they have always wanted. A number of times, I have spent 30-45 mins with someone going thru all the modifications and upgrades. 
 

 

[MJ.]

The way dealerships now make their money, you have to also do performance, to even  make half money as a criminal (if that).  Before people at LSC were all for separating performance. But since the change, the cosmetics and performance is where you make the money, and get the RP, not the sell of the vehicle. Otherwise there is zero incentive to be in/run a dealership when you get a 30 second interaction with someone who already knows what vehicle they want then stand around for another hour waiting for someone to come in. Performance is where you get the RP, and the enjoyment. If you remove/change something else from dealerships, then the dealerships will never be open. Might as well bring back the local dealership at every garage at that point. 

Edited February 14, 2022 by MJ High

[Mo Stills]

I don't think so. I think the answer would be to increase commissions on cars then for Sales people. Performance should be a separate business all to together. Often i see 4-5 people waiting on the car sales people who are picking a color for someone that can't decide. With the population of the city new jobs need to be opened up or it's limited to the few people who sell cars and customize cars. 

Edited February 16, 2022 by Mo Stills

[Leeroy Denkins]

Don't reinvent the wheel. 

[Mo Stills]

if we didn't reinvent the wheel we would have cars with wood wheels on them... 

[Leeroy Denkins]

42 minutes ago, Mo Stills said:

if we didn't reinvent the wheel we would have cars with wood wheels on them... 

I think they improved it not reinvented it lol

 

[Mo Stills]

good point...so call this an improvement (much needed)... haha