New Jail time and parole has killed the DOJ!!!

[Mr. Ghost]

Let me start by saying I completely understand how the new parole system works. However it has always been a battle getting jail calls as an attorney due to LEOs feeling like they have the power to negotiate with the clients already.

With the new sentencing going down to only 60 Months we are completely eliminating the need for an attorney.

I get it there is other things that come with being an attorney in the city, but Cell calls are what a majority of people get into DOJ for and without them you're just a glorified paper filer at that point.

The DOJ is something that is very important to me and I just want to express how over the last 4 days i've received about 5 calls and every call it's hard to even negotiate anything when the client is only looking at 25 months. 

 

Example: Client shoots up half the police department and gets 35 months

Attorney Spends 15 minutes on solid enjoyable RP

Deliberation finally comes and at this point all you can negotiate is about a few months off making it only seem like a waste of time for crims. 

 

Sidenote: I Also understand lawyers can still work to remove charges however, half the time crims admit to everything before we even show up making it impossible to negotiate those things.

Edited February 14, 2023 by Mr. Ghost

[NewportReb]

Since the new system has come out I have only been called once to a jail call. Ive stumbled into a few calls but only once was I called and that was a direct call by a LEO, not put in through the system.

While there are many things for a lawyer to do in badlands, jail calls are really the main activity in which lawyers learn the job and what keeps them interested in it. It is essentially filler until a really fun or interesting case comes along. The new system definately has its advantages. First off the laws have been structured far better than they were in the past. The booking processes is far better stream lined than it was in the past. Second, the early release and parole adds to RP in the sense that crims arent just sitting at the visitor center waiting to get out and it enables them to go RP with whomever while still leaving a severe punishment if they decide to spam banks. It also adds decisions into their RP of "Do I really want to risk it, going on this job, while Im still on parole?" 

However, it has its drawbacks. Most players, cop or crim, dont see a need to call lawyers. Its pretty open and shut under the new system and there isnt a whole lot to negotiate. Stacking of charges is gone, so there really isnt a whole lot to negotiate there either. Why would a player wait 10 minutes for a lawyer to show, go through another 5-20 minutes of deliberation only to get what 10-20 months off? Maybe a few bucks saved? Most criminals that have been around a while dont care about 5k saved. People spend 10x that in shot boxes from burger shot or spin the wheel at the casino. I honesstly cant blame players just wanting to get to jail, especially when LEO's are willing to cut the exact same deal that the lawyer would get 90% of the time. 

DOJ has always been RP enablers. We dont run and gun, we talk, dive into peoples RP, and try to add some depth to it. We dont write their story for them but we play a character in their story. Hopefully with the new dispatch system seeing lawyers and doj around, the calls can go up. Imagine clocking into a job where you are basically farming a paycheck waiting for 1 call a night. Would a cop clock in for 1 call every few days?

So how do we fix this? Well Id start with if a criminal doesn't want a lawyer (which is their right) and one is available, then they go for max time and fine. The only thing the LEO needs to ask is guilty or not guilty. It makes no sense that a criminal and cop negotiate their own case when lawyers are available. If they dont want the people who are litterally around for that RP and dont want to help create it then just go off to jail and get on with your day or night. Second, and I know this is a work in progress, but evaluate if the times vs fines vs parole is the right balance. There is only a few days of data so far, so this might take some time to figure out the right balance. Third, right now the DA's office has far better activity and more time coverage than it has had in months. Not everything is perfect but its getting better day by day. Cops need to call the DA/ADA's when a lawyer is called. We can save you quite a bit of money in not getting lawsuits every five minutes.

We are here to RP and our RP is talking not shooting guns. If cops and crims dont request that RP then it wont happen, lawyers will stop clocking in for 1 or 2 calls a day and lawyers will become an extinct faction on the server. Its not a very large player population that wants to do that RP in the first place. Then all those people that need all that paperwork, their cases heard, wrongs made right, questions about laws, and from time to time someone to vent to, will be very hard to find. The lawyer faction is much more than jail calls, but jail calls are the life blood of the faction.

[CeeTee]

15 hours ago, Mr. Ghost said:

Let me start by saying I completely understand how the new parole system works. However it has always been a battle getting jail calls as an attorney due to LEOs feeling like they have the power to negotiate with the clients already.

With the new sentencing going down to only 60 Months we are completely eliminating the need for an attorney.

I get it there is other things that come with being an attorney in the city, but Cell calls are what a majority of people get into DOJ for and without them you're just a glorified paper filer at that point.

The DOJ is something that is very important to me and I just want to express how over the last 4 days i've received about 5 calls and every call it's hard to even negotiate anything when the client is only looking at 25 months. 

 

Example: Client shoots up half the police department and gets 35 months

Attorney Spends 15 minutes on solid enjoyable RP

Deliberation finally comes and at this point all you can negotiate is about a few months off making it only seem like a waste of time for crims. 

 

Sidenote: I Also understand lawyers can still work to remove charges however, half the time crims admit to everything before we even show up making it impossible to negotiate those things.

I will say I see your points and do agree that the new system does not reward Lawyer's being requested. With that being said the new system can/will be improved on as time goes so lets give it a little bit of time and see what kind of alterations are made.

Maybe if it was possible for a lawyer to negotiate the amount of time his client will be on parole after his jail sentence would put a lot more value on the lawyer.

[floof]

8 hours ago, NewportReb said:

Since the new system has come out I have only been called once to a jail call. Ive stumbled into a few calls but only once was I called and that was a direct call by a LEO, not put in through the system.

While there are many things for a lawyer to do in badlands, jail calls are really the main activity in which lawyers learn the job and what keeps them interested in it. It is essentially filler until a really fun or interesting case comes along. The new system definately has its advantages. First off the laws have been structured far better than they were in the past. The booking processes is far better stream lined than it was in the past. Second, the early release and parole adds to RP in the sense that crims arent just sitting at the visitor center waiting to get out and it enables them to go RP with whomever while still leaving a severe punishment if they decide to spam banks. It also adds decisions into their RP of "Do I really want to risk it, going on this job, while Im still on parole?" 

However, it has its drawbacks. Most players, cop or crim, dont see a need to call lawyers. Its pretty open and shut under the new system and there isnt a whole lot to negotiate. Stacking of charges is gone, so there really isnt a whole lot to negotiate there either. Why would a player wait 10 minutes for a lawyer to show, go through another 5-20 minutes of deliberation only to get what 10-20 months off? Maybe a few bucks saved? Most criminals that have been around a while dont care about 5k saved. People spend 10x that in shot boxes from burger shot or spin the wheel at the casino. I honesstly cant blame players just wanting to get to jail, especially when LEO's are willing to cut the exact same deal that the lawyer would get 90% of the time. 

DOJ has always been RP enablers. We dont run and gun, we talk, dive into peoples RP, and try to add some depth to it. We dont write their story for them but we play a character in their story. Hopefully with the new dispatch system seeing lawyers and doj around, the calls can go up. Imagine clocking into a job where you are basically farming a paycheck waiting for 1 call a night. Would a cop clock in for 1 call every few days?

So how do we fix this? Well Id start with if a criminal doesn't want a lawyer (which is their right) and one is available, then they go for max time and fine. The only thing the LEO needs to ask is guilty or not guilty. It makes no sense that a criminal and cop negotiate their own case when lawyers are available. If they dont want the people who are litterally around for that RP and dont want to help create it then just go off to jail and get on with your day or night. Second, and I know this is a work in progress, but evaluate if the times vs fines vs parole is the right balance. There is only a few days of data so far, so this might take some time to figure out the right balance. Third, right now the DA's office has far better activity and more time coverage than it has had in months. Not everything is perfect but its getting better day by day. Cops need to call the DA/ADA's when a lawyer is called. We can save you quite a bit of money in not getting lawsuits every five minutes.

We are here to RP and our RP is talking not shooting guns. If cops and crims dont request that RP then it wont happen, lawyers will stop clocking in for 1 or 2 calls a day and lawyers will become an extinct faction on the server. Its not a very large player population that wants to do that RP in the first place. Then all those people that need all that paperwork, their cases heard, wrongs made right, questions about laws, and from time to time someone to vent to, will be very hard to find. The lawyer faction is much more than jail calls, but jail calls are the life blood of the faction.

i would agree the point that I think if cops didn't negotiate time with crims and the only way for them to get reduced time & fine was when there is a present lawyer. I think crims will 100% complain but to me , I think that cops giving a amazing deal off the rip kills the need for lawyers. Removing the power for cops to reduce time & fine will create a need for lawyers so there is that double edged sword which people get affected when there is no lawyers available, but seems worth it in the long run to me.

[Connor O'Shea]

3 minutes ago, floof said:

i would agree the point that I think if cops didn't negotiate time with crims and the only way for them to get reduced time & fine was when there is a present lawyer. I think crims will 100% complain but to me , I think that cops giving a amazing deal off the rip kills the need for lawyers. Removing the power for cops to reduce time & fine will create a need for lawyers so there is that double edged sword which people get affected when there is no lawyers available, but seems worth it in the long run to me.

What if there was a system in place to when cops try to reduce fines, they get a prompt telling them they dont have the knowledge and must contact a REAL lawyer? This way, when no lawyers are on duty, cops can still reduce things, but soon as a lawyer clocks in, Cops are mechanically forced to use a lawyer? Sucks to have to do that, and I hate using/suggesting game mechanics for things like that, however, seems like there is a need? Like CK said though, its currently a new system, so maybe more time is needed?

[Vega]

The usefulness of lawyers before this change was questionable at best before this. The new changes are a large step forward for our processing system in my eyes. For now, gone are the days of deliberating with a lawyer and PO for 30 minutes for a 20 month and 5k reduction on a potential 180 month jail sentence.

As Castor has mentioned there are ways the system can approve as time goes on. Lawyers seeking to enjoy the RP of representing criminals will have to be more at the ready/nearby to have a stronger impact. As well, where you may not have had a huge effect on the initial prison sentence you could make up in reduction in restitution and parole sentencing. 

[NewportReb]

2 hours ago, Vega said:

The usefulness of lawyers before this change was questionable at best before this. The new changes are a large step forward for our processing system in my eyes. For now, gone are the days of deliberating with a lawyer and PO for 30 minutes for a 20 month and 5k reduction on a potential 180 month jail sentence.

As Castor has mentioned there are ways the system can approve as time goes on. Lawyers seeking to enjoy the RP of representing criminals will have to be more at the ready/nearby to have a stronger impact. As well, where you may not have had a huge effect on the initial prison sentence you could make up in reduction in restitution and parole sentencing. 

Yes absolutely. There is zero incentive for crims or cops to call a lawyer, when the crim and cops are going to do the exact same deal a lawyer would. Lawyers were widely available in January. The faction was rebuilding and coverage per day was far better than it was in December. Now as jail calls tail off, its right back to the dumps. Thats why I said , if crims dont want a lawyer , which is their choice, then eat the charges. If the charges arent enough of a worry to call a lawyer, then the time off and a couple of bucks shouldnt really matter.

Edited February 15, 2023 by NewportReb
error

[Nataree]

I personally would hope that - considering we can no longer stack charges - if an officer was in charge of negotiating with suspects who had just “shot down half of PD” they would not be taking a huge amount of time off their sentence. That makes no sense IC and there needs to be set boundaries of what level of crime is going to give you maximum time (which is now back to only 60 minutes) in prison. 
If a lawyer or the DA is around during those situations they should be called to cells regardless of suspects wanting representation or not, the DA especially. 
 

My suggestion is to limit the amount of time & restitution an LEO May reduce from a sentence without a lawyer present.

1. This would help tackle Officers giving huge breaks to ridiculous levels of violent crimes which is terribly immersion breaking. Especially if that Officer was just shit down themselves.

2. This would help tackle the attitude form the criminals side of “no lawyer, just send me” when they realize that the LEO is not going to reduce the time as low as they hoped.

I am not trying to punish criminals with this suggestion by forcing them in to time-out prison; however. The max sentence you will ever have to spend in prison is 60 months. It has been cut in half from what it was before and nothing is stopping you committing crime on parole it’s just up to you to risk it or take the incentive to try some other avenues of RP other than mechanic robberies. There needs to be set expectations of risk when conducting high levels of violence towards innocent civilians and police alike that will result in heftier sentences. 

I would suggest a maximum of 15 month reductions LEOs would be allowed to make when negotiating without a lawyer or DA. 
 

However suggesting all this, that’s not to say DOJ should just continue to be time & fine droppers. Now that the parole system is in, getting charges dropped in levels or all together is important as it all affects the parole your clients are facing after their prison sentence. 

Edited February 16, 2023 by Nataree

[Cristoforo Marcone]

Unfortunately this is not a new issue that has arisen because of the parole system. It has been a issue for quite a while now its one of the reasons Cristoforo stopped actively being on duty as lawyer. 

The biggest issue i see here is that people saying "it isn't worth it" to bring lawyers to the cells. We are supposed to be roleplaying it shouldn't matter if its worth it or not you should be making an effort to improve everyone's roleplay not just your own. 

I remember a time when i would be called down to MRPD and not leave for 3-4 hours. Not because it was "worth it" to have a lawyer there but because people were more willing to supply roleplay. If cops and criminals are negotiating deals without a lawyer involved (when available) you are actively denying someone else roleplay or a more harsh way to say it: you are stealing roleplay that belongs to someone else.

I feel this isn't a "mechanic issue" and more of a roleplay issue. 

[jayceon Taylor]

I will say this as a criminal I will always ask for a lawyer no matter the situation for two reasons one it doesn’t make sense for a criminal not to have a lawyer and I wanna drag a situation out as much as possible so there is some kind rp in the jail cells for cops other cims that are in the cells and doj so I wouldn’t get so discouraged I always recommend a lawyer for anyone getting arrested  

Edited February 20, 2023 by jayceon Taylor

[r3v0Lt55]

I would think DOJ would be happy with the free up of 15 min jail cell arguments that are nothing more than merely he said she said copy pasta interactions. They now have time to take on more meaningful cases that actually have substance to them. Unfortunately from personal experience over the last couple months I've tried to get DOJ involved in 4 of these sorts of scenarios with more substance ranging from assassination attempts of government officials to police misconduct.  I have been ignored in both in city communications and discord request lawyer channels on 3 of the 4 cases or abandoned by lawyers who took the case initially.   I just think DOJ is at a cross roads where you guys have the opportunity to expand the role lawyers have to more than just cell arguments and would hope that you guys would be open to that.