Stop using the Hakuchou Drag for getting away

[Denver]

I get it, it's fast, it's fun to drive fast. But the people using this bike to get away from the cops because they know it can out run any other vehicle need to know how we (cops) feel about this. 
Earlier today I was onduty solo, the only calls I was getting for like 2 hours straight were drug calls, but every single time I went there to get an interaction and some RP, there was a well known criminal on the Hakuchou Drag speeding away instantly. (0 -> 100 in less than 2 seconds).

And once again, I get it, you need money for your roleplay, but this is not the way. Using this motorcycle is just as cheesy as using super cars to get away. We didn't become cops to ruin roleplay or to be dicks. We are here to roleplay, and we can't do that without you guys.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind it if you get away, we win some, we lose some. That's fine. But it's not fun to know you won't be able to catch someone because of a stupidly fast vehicle. We won't wanna interact with you, if you keep using tactics to avoid interactions.

RP goes both ways.

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Not here to be mad at anyone or hate on anyone, just wanna share my (and other officers) opinion on this motorcycle and any other unrealistically fast vehicles that are only good for one thing, to avoid Roleplay.

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Please share your opinions, remember to stay respectful and not attack any factions or groups of people. We are a community.

[Higuys]

I agree with this part of RP is to come up with getaways that are enjoyable for yourself & Police to be apart of. Obliviously as a crim your goal should always be to get away but using a Super bike to get away from every interaction is not the way to do it. There are many ways to get away from Police as a crim just need to be able to come up with a Elaborate plan Especially when doing bank robberies.

[WTFjamie]

i also agree with this, as someone who was a cop and now a crim one of the most scummiest things to use it the hakucho for things like bank robberiers/stores ect, now if people are constantly using it as a get away vehicle and you can 100% identify them my advise would be to contact doj with regards to a seizure of the vehicle and on top of that with the speed of the bike 1 of two things needs to happen, 1. its speed needs reduction or 2. the bike is technically a super bike so give it the propper pricing most cities i have played in over the years understand the speed of this bike and have it set at around 500k-1mil because of how OP its is.

Edited January 3, 2022 by WTFjamie

[Crunkgod]

-1 

I've had the drag for awhile, back when it did like 180+ now 160~, another speed reduction would just be further proof that cops just want a W, ive honestly put up my bike for a bit since the first reduction cause i knew if cops saw it alot (ive not once took it on a job btw) there would just be another outcry like this from too many L's on their end when cops usually win 9/10 times. Usually i dont jump in on these things but as someone who actually rides real life motorcycles i can tell you, they actually just go fast, so to say 'Unrealistic' speeds just gets me when literally all the cops cars go just as fast or faster. I feel the only way you want crims to escape is in a 4 door sedan that goes 120 redlining, What you should do if you see a motorcycle( i would say any but most crotchrockets are nerfed to golfcart mode) is what they do in real life and set up a small perimeter and have keen eyes, a phrase some bikers in life might have heard "you can outrun the car but not the radio" like i said i dont use this bike for jobs cause i knew id hear echos of tears but the handful of people that are using them for chases are going to get it dumbed down again for me to just sell it off cause its bricked. Its always an outcry for the crims to "better rp and have more elusive plans" but then motorcycles=scummy, ambushes=unfair, car swaps=cheap, class3s=aggressive, water escape=unrealistic, knives=broken, and silent jobs(uniforms/ids/whatever) you gotta endure a 2hr interrogation with the tone from officers of"i know your lying wait til i can prove IC" unless youre a favorited 'clique' , that being said if someone is chain robbing with the drag then thats not an issue with the bike thats the person, but i dont see every job being hit with these for it to warrant another vehicle civs get nerfed

[Samantha Hatfield]

It's not the speed of the bike, the individual in this case, it's their knowledge of their surroundings, ability to adapt to the vehicle in said area, knowing how to counter the cons of the vehicle.

Back in the day when I had a horrible computer that would make me fall through the map, as the server grew larger and larger; I had to set myself to a speed limit of 50 just so the ground would render fast enough for me to have a nice chase. And I've gotten away quite a few times, despite the circumstances I faced.

With that being stated @Crunkgod summarized it perfectly in my opinion, but this is when player reporting comes in. It's just like a Internal Affairs report, not always will a punishment be dished out, sometimes it acts as a way for Staff to talk to the individual and steer them into a better direction RP wise.

-1

[Fletch_a_Sketch]

The selling point of bike vs car on the server is that bikes break down faster/more easily than cars do but they also go faster can hit more tighter areas than a car. Its one thing to be outnumbered in a scenario and I feel like that is one of the underlying feelings that you have stated. Cops get a 10 vs 5 outnumber rule in their favor and while it may not be available to happen all the time, it might just be a taste of what criminals have to go through when feeling outnumbered in a somewhat familiar feeling. 

As for the money, any job or occupation outside of LEO, EMS, and like Food/Cars/Mechanics has a hard time making money. If you look at investment costs it is probably <2k to get suited up as a cop with an efficient vehicle with lots of storage, armor, class 3, decent food/drinks and a few other notes all within a span of 10 minutes. Sure criminals are grinding hard to avoid cops and picking decent cars/getaway vehicles but nerfing each getaway vehicle into the ground is costing criminals more money (and more notably time getting that money) than people may realize. As a last note the cost of a fully upgraded car/bike that is notable is 150k+ on average, meaning that it would suck to lose it yes, because it takes a bit of time to make 150+ especially if you have had a number of failed escape attempts which most criminals have. Yes, payouts on bigger heists can be seen but they usually attract the biggest risk if 5-10 cops show up vs 1-5 criminals.

Also, it could be silly to think but having a warrant out + selling drugs might mean more time than the criminal wants to spend so sometimes they do take the stinky approach and try to use the better getaway vehicles that go faster. I do agree with the idea of using other cars/means to get away but for some criminals they might not have other notable cars/bikes to drive to do so at all times... sure there's other means to get a good getaway car but with everything a criminal usually does theres a chance of getting caught to it and for each step they have to take those chances increase.

If you see a notable criminal and a notable vehicle on these scenes though I would 100% try warrants for at least suspicion especially if a criminal is not smart about hiding notable features/car specifics or is using the same clothing.

As for the last part you are right, RP should go both ways... not trying to lie but if a crim has had bad run ins with cops before while taking a different approach and actually let the cops show up have a conversation before and it led into a bad outcome or bad RP in their perspective then maybe they've changed up their tactics on how they handle their sales of drugs. Throughout the time during RP i've had bad interactions with others and i've had good ones and i will say it will only take a couple of bad interactions for the methods or approaches to those scenarios may change.

As much as it sucks being the only cop on duty dealing with a whole bunch of cases, ive felt the same experience while being the only EMS on duty and a bunch of people are going down... basically its going to be hard to get to each answer for a call. 

[MJ.]

19 hours ago, Crunkgod said:

-1 

I've had the drag for awhile, back when it did like 180+ now 160~, another speed reduction would just be further proof that cops just want a W, ive honestly put up my bike for a bit since the first reduction cause i knew if cops saw it alot (ive not once took it on a job btw) there would just be another outcry like this from too many L's on their end when cops usually win 9/10 times. Usually i dont jump in on these things but as someone who actually rides real life motorcycles i can tell you, they actually just go fast, so to say 'Unrealistic' speeds just gets me when literally all the cops cars go just as fast or faster. I feel the only way you want crims to escape is in a 4 door sedan that goes 120 redlining, What you should do if you see a motorcycle( i would say any but most crotchrockets are nerfed to golfcart mode) is what they do in real life and set up a small perimeter and have keen eyes, a phrase some bikers in life might have heard "you can outrun the car but not the radio" like i said i dont use this bike for jobs cause i knew id hear echos of tears but the handful of people that are using them for chases are going to get it dumbed down again for me to just sell it off cause its bricked. Its always an outcry for the crims to "better rp and have more elusive plans" but then motorcycles=scummy, ambushes=unfair, car swaps=cheap, class3s=aggressive, water escape=unrealistic, knives=broken, and silent jobs(uniforms/ids/whatever) you gotta endure a 2hr interrogation with the tone from officers of"i know your lying wait til i can prove IC" unless youre a favorited 'clique' , that being said if someone is chain robbing with the drag then thats not an issue with the bike thats the person, but i dont see every job being hit with these for it to warrant another vehicle civs get nerfed

The point isnt for a W. The point is for a fair even chase. The drag has turned into the new meta. Don't blame cops. Blame the crims that use it to get away in literally any scenario. The bike in general is OP and in my personal opinion needs to be nerfed quite a bit. I have been in many gang wars lately as a crim and a cop and see people using it for those OP reasons. I hate it more on crim honestly. Quick getaway is not fun for both parties, its fun for one because it is an easy W. 
I ride with one of the BEST drivers in the city while on PD, and we have lost the Drag bike literally anytime we had to chase it. The normal patrol vehicles can't keep up with it at all. And the Motor Unit we have is basically nothing compared to that thing. It's gone in 2.5 seconds. No room for any sort of fun chase. (yes, PD wants fun chases too.) 
Things get nerfed because people in the city abuse them. Don't blame it on cops. Blame it on the constant meta that happens with certain vehicles.

[Ascendancism]

5 hours ago, MJ High said:

The point isnt for a W. The point is for a fair even chase. The drag has turned into the new meta. Don't blame cops. Blame the crims that use it to get away in literally any scenario. The bike in general is OP and in my personal opinion needs to be nerfed quite a bit. I have been in many gang wars lately as a crim and a cop and see people using it for those OP reasons. I hate it more on crim honestly. Quick getaway is not fun for both parties, its fun for one because it is an easy W. 
I ride with one of the BEST drivers in the city while on PD, and we have lost the Drag bike literally anytime we had to chase it. The normal patrol vehicles can't keep up with it at all. And the Motor Unit we have is basically nothing compared to that thing. It's gone in 2.5 seconds. No room for any sort of fun chase. (yes, PD wants fun chases too.) 
Things get nerfed because people in the city abuse them. Don't blame it on cops. Blame it on the constant meta that happens with certain vehicles.

You haves access to a plethora of tools & resources to take down the driver as a LEO. You have units that can swap into AIR-1 or utilize multiple motorcycles and traffic enforcement vehicles. You can also have this vehicle impounded & or seized. As @Crunkgod said majority of civilian vehicles are redlining at 120 which for me does not make for an even or engaging chase & the few outliers on the server are 'meta' because they can engage in an actual police chase or shootout until they are eventually nerfed. As @Nadiyasaid and I 100% agree, it's not the bike it's the person & their mindset. 

[James]

1 hour ago, Ascendancism said:

You haves access to a plethora of tools & resources to take down the driver as a LEO. You have units that can swap into AIR-1 or utilize multiple motorcycles and traffic enforcement vehicles. You can also have this vehicle impounded & or seized. As @Crunkgod said majority of civilian vehicles are redlining at 120 which for me does not make for an even or engaging chase & the few outliers on the server are 'meta' because they can engage in an actual police chase or shootout until they are eventually nerfed. As @Nadiyasaid and I 100% agree, it's not the bike it's the person & their mindset. 

+1 Definitely on mindset.

The majority of police vehicles can keep up with anything the criminals have at disposal, while criminals have to try and buy the next 'meta' pick after a vehicle gets nerfed. Instead of nerfing what is OP maybe there should be some buffs to some other vehicles so criminals have more options and more variety.

[CoryGraves]

I may solo in my opinion but...

If criminals are doing X and getting away everytime, cops should make a plan of there own to counter X and it should be up to the criminals to find something new. If criminals take out X expect Air-1 or 3 more cops.. whatever.

[Leeroy Denkins]

Idk, cant beat em join em. police issue Hakuchou Drag

[Razec]

I don't mind the Hakuchou Drag. If the criminal chose the motorcycle because he can't afford to RP or get caught in order to make some money, then I'd rather not engage. When I see that the other party isn't on the same mood to RP as I am, I rather leave it behind and find something else to do or someone else to catch. PD is already heavily unbalanced if you take under consideration the sheer speed of all patrol cars and their handling on all possible surfaces. Nerfing a motorcycle because you can't catch it isn't necessarily the way to go here, if this is the aim of this post.

Setting a limitation on it feels unfair given all the tools we already have at our disposal. It is very rare for things not to go our way. If we make the effort to catch someone, I can assure you it is not that difficult. Asking someone to take it easy and come with a different approach, just so it goes both ways, might not be the best answer. 

Rather have it by coming up with solutions and tactics to help you catch said criminal, with all the tools that you currently have. It is all part of RP, part of the immersion to use what's available to you in order to come up with something that works. It's a 2 team effort, yes, but we are the ones that need to learn how to sacrifice a little in order to make the universe fair for both parties. 

Edited January 5, 2022 by Razec

[StareDown]

https://clips.twitch.tv/LivelySilkyJalapenoCoolCat-tEtMmlfgqb4KZubj

 

If you think this is fair, then IDK what to say. +1

Edited January 7, 2022 by StareDown
Clip Link Fix

[Mefcy]

I've gotten to the point the groups who continue to use Drag bikes i wont even interact with at all, they don't want RP they just want a quick cash grab and do not want any RP interaction with cops.

[kells]

On 1/5/2022 at 1:22 PM, Leeroy Denkins said:

Idk, cant beat em join em. police issue Hakuchou Drag

+1

[Erwin]

Being an officer that use to use the motorcycle like every day, I can 100% guarantee you. Our motorcycle CANNOT keep up with the drag. I have pushed that motorcycle to more limits than probably any other PD officer, and most will say I am pretty good on the bike. Hell I've had crims comment about how I only ever caught them because I was on that bike. The drag is more OP than that. Would it stand vs the newest interceptor? I don't know. I'm not an Interceptor driver, but speed isn't really the problem. The problem is that the person using the bike uses the braking to get into tight corners (perfectly fine, we can follow sure, at a slower pace even on a motorcycle) but then as soon as they are clear of that tight spot, they are speeding off faster than the acceleration of any other PD vehicle.

 

I personally don't care about the drag, I just want the RP. 

[Randy Jones]

Tbh honest whenever I see a drag at a robbery I turn around and drive away. People who do that obviously aren't in it for the RP they are in it for the ez get dub, so may as well give it to them. 

Edited January 10, 2022 by Randy Jones

[Crunkgod]

You all are shouting we want RP yet the RP doesnt happen during the chase it happens at the crime, so then when you see something you will lose a chase in you..dont RP? and leave cause you know youll lose the chase? i know its not RP in the cells youre looking for cause thats the RP i like to fuck around with the most at times and besides a couple officers who know they are the cool ones, most of the officers have 0 interaction in the cells besides "wow youre dumb why did you do that" and stand in the corner with the other officers and complain about paper work. Crims complain about OP all the time that gets pushed under the rug and told to RP, cops lose to something more than once then again complained about and nerfed and yet no changes have been made to PD side. The police bike may not have as fast acceleration but it is extremly fast, and one ding on the drag and its done, ive seen the bike get plowed by a local and its right back on the chase. Yeah, sure, no W chasers here, just completely switching off crim characters and main cop who win more

[NewportReb]

So I have held off on commenting on this one, but what the hell, its game time. So Neil interacts with a lot of crims and cops, both as a lawyer and car dealer. He has been able to give me quite an insight into why the drag bikes are proliferating and make no mistake, look at Neils sales sheet, they are. There is a reason for it though. Let me first say, there are great cops that do some fantastic RP out there, but they unfortunately are in the minority. Most cops, from my experience, are just around for pew pew and wee woo. The crims that are running these bikes are taking a look at who is working (IC mind you) , they indeed do scout them out and see who is rolling in a patrol car, and if they have had terrible RP with them in the past, out come the drags. If you are seeing them, then it may be you or it may be a co worker on shift with you. It sucks, really sucks, that great RP cops are going to have to deal with "out come the drags" and I feel for them. The crims do too. However at the end of the day it's about enjoying your time in the city while you are here. Nerfing the drag is not the answer. All that will do is force crims to just not do a damn thing. The solution has to come from both sides where neither is in it for the W but rather the RP. Honestly, I dont know if that can happen. It will take individual efforts from players to make that happen. Before you go "that's not me," do a honest assessment of how you are in the city. If it is you, make a change. If it isn't, great. If you see a friend or co worker where it is a problem, talk to them. This drag bike problem is only get fixed by players.

[tay]

On 1/5/2022 at 7:22 PM, Leeroy Denkins said:

Idk, cant beat em join em. police issue Hakuchou Drag

soonTM

[Atryus]

So playing devils advocate here, yes the Drag was an issue, but nerfing it I feel was the wrong move. When you get down to it you have a problem, and the Drag is the result of said problem. Nerfing the Drag isnt going to give you the results you're looking for because now crims will find something else. This is something I've spent a long time considering and talking about for a bit now. A few months ago Cops were given the ability to impound personal vehicles for multiple days because someone dared to use their car that they spent time making money to buy in a crime. This is a wild change that personally i dont understand but thats beside the point, This in turn told Crims you can either A. Steal other peoples cars for crimes. B. Steal local cars for crimes. or C. Go for the W and don't get caught.

For a while We as crims went with A and B because lets be honest here as a community for a second, Criminal jobs are a joke. The only reason people are doing it is for the rush and RP because we sure as hell are not doing it for the money. Now after this cops got a buff in the way of the mustang. Now lets run down a standard bank response. you rob a bank and are going to have a minimum of like 6 cops, there will almost always be a minimum of one TEU the other day there was a paleto bank with 2 mustangs and it was asked if they should pull air 1. The get away vehicle was a standard Sultan. A vehicle that caps at MAYBE 130 when all standard LEO vehicles hit about 150 with the exception of some. now im not complaining I personally dont do banks due to the constant complaints of Cops OP, no Crims OP.

At the end of the day Cops are over powered and we need to as a community understand how and where, Police numbers are a power play, and honestly, thats fine, most crims would not care if 6 or 7 cops show up to a call if it wasnt for things like the heavy pistol which has been proven to be better than most crim pistols, (Im aware the Mk2 got a buff and its improved this situation) Police AR's are better than crims but lets be honest barely better and in general class 3's are garbage cop or crim. Cop cars are generally better, they take far more damage and their top speed is faster than 80% of local vehicles(Which max at like 120) which is what it seems like those in charge of balance want us to use.

However with that said, lets cover the Crim side. Crimes have the advantage in being able to pre plan. We can set people up on buildings, we can decide what weapons we want, we can decide our game plan. and thats the overpowered nature that crims have, We almost always set the situation up, and LEO have to come into it blind and pray they can handle it. We also have the OP side of it where even though we are tied to 5 per group, we never know how many groups are doing what or whats already going on.

 

due to this you get a ruthless cycle. Where cops get a buff or change to handle x cheese strat, that fucks over crim rp, crims make a new strat to compensate, cops get mad, cops get a buff, and repeat to infinity. The main cause of the OOC salt I feel Is since crims decide when to do something we can chill and calm down and do something when we feel like it, But LEO dont get that choice, so you get LEO who have been burnt out, don't notice it and dont take a time off to relax and go from gun shot to gun shot bank to bank so on so fourth, they take their anger or stress out on a group who has nothing to do with it, which then pisses the crims off which then causes them to go after cops which then burns out more cops.

This is why nerfing the drag will do nothing, For a moment cops will get a break until crims find something new and then we are back to the same problem, The problem needs to be tackled from the source not the result. just my two cents.

[Timr]

3 hours ago, Atryus said:

Criminal jobs are a joke

[Denver]

I feel as if a lot of criminals don't realise that the only way of earning money for cops is by the paycheck that's given to us every 5 minutes. 

 

Let's do some math shall we. 

My paycheck = $650

Each hour I get 12 paycheck = a little over $7,000

Onduty for 4 hours = $28,000

--

Crims can earn way more money in less than a hour. Stop saying you're underpaid as crim

--

So that rules out the fact that we somehow do it for the money, now let's rule out that we do it for the W or to be Power troopers. We hop onduty to get RP and interactions with criminals, whether this is the same old dealing with actual crimes or made up roleplay jobs, doesn't matter, we are here for the RP. I'm tired of people blaming everything on cops, saying ee just want the W. We dont. How do you think its for us to always win, that's boring. 

Let me sum it up, we won't and don't care about the start or finish of the interaction, only the inbetween. 

So yes, chasing a vehicles that's at least twice as fast as any of our vehicles isn't fun, this isn't gta online, we aren't here to drive 250mp/h (example) though the streets risking everyone's lives just to catch someone, and you're not gonna tell me crims actually enjoy getting away every single time without getting an interaction, you're here to RP, right?? 

 

As for multiple TEU/INT vehicles + Air1 showing up for a as you say normal Sultan, please file IA's. If you feel something is wrong, file an IA, else it'll never stop. 

And before some crackhead says nothing happens with IA's. 

I was suspended for 3 (iirc) days for simply stomping on a downed and cuffed individuals head (through RP). 

 

I rest my case, I just wanted to share my opinion with this discussion, I never meant for this to be an attack on crims or cops, or anyone for that sake. The discussion is on the bike and it's use, not the users. 

[Atryus]

2 hours ago, Lion_Luke said:

I feel as if a lot of criminals don't realise that the only way of earning money for cops is by the paycheck that's given to us every 5 minutes. 

 

Let's do some math shall we. 

My paycheck = $650

Each hour I get 12 paycheck = a little over $7,000

Onduty for 4 hours = $28,000

--

Crims can earn way more money in less than a hour. Stop saying you're underpaid as crim

--

So that rules out the fact that we somehow do it for the money, now let's rule out that we do it for the W or to be Power troopers. We hop onduty to get RP and interactions with criminals, whether this is the same old dealing with actual crimes or made up roleplay jobs, doesn't matter, we are here for the RP. I'm tired of people blaming everything on cops, saying ee just want the W. We dont. How do you think its for us to always win, that's boring. 

Let me sum it up, we won't and don't care about the start or finish of the interaction, only the inbetween. 

So yes, chasing a vehicles that's at least twice as fast as any of our vehicles isn't fun, this isn't gta online, we aren't here to drive 250mp/h (example) though the streets risking everyone's lives just to catch someone, and you're not gonna tell me crims actually enjoy getting away every single time without getting an interaction, you're here to RP, right?? 

 

As for multiple TEU/INT vehicles + Air1 showing up for a as you say normal Sultan, please file IA's. If you feel something is wrong, file an IA, else it'll never stop. 

And before some crackhead says nothing happens with IA's. 

I was suspended for 3 (iirc) days for simply stomping on a downed and cuffed individuals head (through RP). 

 

I rest my case, I just wanted to share my opinion with this discussion, I never meant for this to be an attack on crims or cops, or anyone for that sake. The discussion is on the bike and it's use, not the users. 

How much of your paycheck actually goes to you spending money to do your job as a cop though? not a sassy retort just genuinely curious. Because for a Crim, that AK 60k, That armor 1k-1.5k each. that LMG 100k, Laptops, drugs, cars, lock picks, all of these and so much more require money to actually do it to even attempt it, or knowledge of a location that in the case of drugs changes a lot. and this is an aspect many i feel do not consider, That bank robbery, you got 5 people, if each one has an ak and a vest they are looking at a 61k investment if they get caught, that not including the fine and times or anything like that, thats saying the individuals go in with just and ak and a vest. mutiply that by 5 the crew is risking 305k with just those two items before fines and times get added, now im not using this to say crims need it easier by any means, im saying most criminal jobs, dont even cover that risk. now should every bank job give 500k to ensure they come out even? no, because I would say most people get away from banks in the chase. the point im making is the requirement for money as a crim is a completely different ballgame for the requirement for money as a cop. and im not saying cops don't deserve a better paycheck.

[Atryus]

3 hours ago, Timr said:

a little out of context, partially my fault ill elaborate. You can spend 3-4 hours as a crim and make and sell 250 Heroin for 70k or 3-4 hours as a trucker or hunter and make 380k. you can risk 305k in basic gear to rob a bank and make about 120k split betweeen 5 people for about 1-3 hours of work (Depends on your luck getting a hostage) or the same amount of time again into trucking and hunting and make more 120k for yourself. The point is its a joke that people think crims are grinding criminal jobs for a purely monetary driven reason, Most people robbing banks or stores are doing it for the rush.