Kidnapping from clothes stores

[Danielle Wright]

I have been kidnapped AT LEAST 12 times while changing clothes. While I understand that you are at risk when you are out and about, in a clothes store, you are literally locked in your menu and unable to defend yourself, which people take advantage of. I don't think clothes stores should be green necessarily, but is there any way to discourage people from constantly kidnapping from clothes stores? It's really toxic.. 

You can go to off the wall shops I guess but still. Am I the only one who feels this way? Totally up for different views!!! Maybe I'm looking at it wrong...

[Samantha Hatfield]

The general lack of effort put forth towards the quality of roleplay when it comes to hostage taking is really low.

I agree to a extent with this post, here is why:

some clothing stores are rarely ever used then why not just use those ones? as example: Chumash. I get you'll state that it's too far and etc to go out of your way but it wouldn't hurt being a little late to something. Anyways moving on.

it's instantly a gun in your face and a get in the car type deal without much else. Not saying this wouldn't happen IRL, but this is a game and there is a person behind the screen that could be wanting more out of that RP. Here is my view on what I envision would be a good way to start as a example:

When approaching on a group of strangers you don't have to start by waiving a gun, especially if you're worried about said group and or individual retaliating. Start the interaction friendly and build a temporary rapport. Give your friends some kind of code word where you try to move the conversation towards that once you reach where you want it to go, all of you pull your guns and switch the tone from nice to mean, and take your hostage(s). they are people in and out, but their characters' lives are just a token for a demand from police. You don't have to use my example, but try to be creative when creating your own scenarios.

Another way could be offering someone a job, then it turns out after going to the location you are actually kidnapped and made to do stuff. Even that is more exciting and could build story, to why you have a gun in-someones face.

[Skolly717]

If we take away the ability for people to be kidnapped from these places, it takes from criminal ability to organically find a hostage. With server stressing no volunteer hostages, which I think is a good thing, we’re left with restaurants, mechanics, various stores, and garages. Especially with the time sensitive nature of job prep, and getting lucky enough to hit a job that’s not on cool down, making it harder to find a hostage than it already is will most likely bring back the whole volunteer hostage issue. 

[ShesElectrick]

I'm very careful about the clothing stores I choose to use when I'm alone - generally picking ones less frequented and out of the way if I'm going to be there for longer than a few minutes and definitely avoiding the ones I feel people get taken from the most. 

On the criminal side, it can be very difficult to find a hostage. The thing that takes the longest in most robbery plans IS getting the hostage. A lot of people are with friends and you don't often want to approach a group because you risk them doing something to protect their friend. I feel the most common places to actually get a hostage are clothing stores, garages, or mechanic shops  (I hate taking from mechanic shops so hardly ever use this option myself, but we know it happens.) It is becoming more common for people to target someone alone in a vehicle, make them pull over and then take them hostage.

I would say we can't discourage people from taking someone from a clothing store because then it would be next to impossible to get anyone.

[Danielle Wright]

When I'm on criminal I have personally refused to take from clothing stores or mechanics, and yes at times it is very difficult to find a hostage. I see both sides of this, being that really it should be difficult to kidnap people and it shouldn't be so common to have hostages in robberies. However, as a criminal, if you don't have a hostage, you literally have no chance. PD will breach and take you into custody. So, it's a tricky situation all around, I get it.

I just wish people would put more effort instead of the standard get someone from a clothes store, take to store, rob and do the standard negotiation let me go, no spike strips etc., then rinse and repeat. 

Also, if you pick me up from a clothes store and don't zip tie me and put me in your trunk, don't get mad when I'm on my phone!  At least take the time to zip tie your hostage people. Or disablement kits, those are still a thing!

[Mefcy]

I have a bigger problem with people taking mechanics hostage than clothing store tbh, the amount of times i see a Auto Exotic as a hostage is hilarious

[Budal]

The hostage epidemic gets solved when cops stop breaching every time there is no hostage, change my mind.

[Carl Berg]

 

9 hours ago, Budal said:

The hostage epidemic gets solved when cops stop breaching every time there is no hostage, change my mind.

I don't agree with your statement that cops breach every time there is no hostage, i have done plenty of robberies with no hostage  and more often then not the resolution is found through talking

[Norton]

3 hours ago, ItsJustMK47 said:

-1  I have did plent of robberies in the recent days with no cops and haven't had a single breach, putting a little thought and creativity can always solve the issue (not saying you didn't) can always have an ending of no breach

I agree with him. If you provide a solid conversation and a good scene. You're likely not gonna be breached on. If you're saying look we have 5 minutes and stand there with no hostage... IT's gonna happen. Create a better interaction on the scene and you wont be seeing officers breach. 

[Atryus]

my first robbery cops stole my hostage because i didnt put a gun on him the entire time and only had it in my hands so..... Was funny but it put Paul in a position to where if a hostage ever puts their hands down and starts standing up they get shot.

[Timr]

Staff discussed this at our meeting on Sunday and decided that the current rules surrounding kidnapping from clothing stores (none) are sufficient for the time being.

[AtomicGinger]

I know the staff team has made a "ruling" on this topic already, but I felt like I should add my 2 cents.

Some of the arguments surrounding taking away kidnapping from clothing stores are in the lines of "it ruins my RP for a hostage robbery." Those haven't been the exact words but it's more or less what I get from it. This is where I ask.......what about that civilians RP? What if they're getting ready for something with friends and you interrupt that simply because you want to rob a store? Does your RP matter more than theirs? Just food for thoughts.

Also, in my opinion, kidnapping folks from a clothing store SHOULD be covered under the Power Gaming rule. How so? The rule reads "We do not support a must win or must lose mentality at BLRP. Your actions should be focused on promoting RP within and outside of your group. YOU SHOULD NOT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IN GAME MECHANICS OR SERVER RULES TO GAIN AN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE OVER OTHER PLAYERS.  There are no predictive outcomes in RP and your actions should not attempt to control the narrative of other players."

Where's the unfair advantage? The mere fact that when folks are in the clothing store, they're in a menu (a server mechanic) and in a complete defenseless state. They're clicking through clothing items and don't usually have eyes on the door. They can't fight back or attempt flee even if they want to. 

Edited January 25, 2022 by AtomicGinger

[Titus]

Hard NO in my opinion for "green zoning" clothing stores. I've read all the comments here, some decent points all around but I still fail to see the logic in this.

 

The best argument FOR so far I believe is the fact that there is a menu you are in. That I can sort of understand. However the point is kind of moot with regards to not being able to react as when hostage takers come in they either already have guns out or will pull before you. Unless you pull out an AK every time you meet someone... they will have guns out before. As for the fight or flee... you are in a bottlenecked and enclosed space with someone who has a gun to your face... I don't see many occasions where RP / valuing your life could allow for an escape at that particular time... But maybe that's just me, not a fan of getting shot you know.

 

Next up... The whole who's RP is more important.... Neither / both. I will state tho that everyone living in Los Santos understands that being taken hostage is a risk. So you got someone dressing up, maybe even for an event... Then you got someone who's been driving around for over 40min (happens quite often) looking for an easy mark... Should the hostage taker back off cuz the other has something to do... Of course not. cuz then everyone would say that and having a gun in your face doesn't matter anymore. That would open a whole can of worms that I doubt devs or players wanna get into. 

 

Same with mechanics... easy targets. Should we ban taking hostages at mech shops cuz that person is providing a service to the city... again, hell no. There are work arounds. Do what Auto Exotic did... make or join a business so there are more of you (solo robber usually don't pull on 3 ppl). And same with clothing shops... find a quiet shop. However... There is still a risk no matter what.

 

It can be pretty difficult and time consuming already to find a hostage, especially if you do not play on peak times. And even more so if you are a solo or duo robbers. The not so recent and amazing rule of not having friends / paying ppl as hostages adds to this (great addition, was glad to see that rule come into play). Due to this, I believe restricting areas to grab from even more will only be a detriment to this city. It's difficult enough to find the stuff to do the robbery and then to get away from the cops. Adding more restrictions will just push ppl away / piss ppl off / make it not worth the time. It could also lead to rule abuse... having an alt log in to be the hostage so the group doesn't have to spend 2hrs trying to find someone. 

 

As for hostage taker RP... that could be a whole other topic. I've met funny ppl, boring ppl, super aggressive ppl, and dumb ppl that I escaped from. Trying to force a specific RP on ppl simply wont work. It would be like telling all the mechanics they actually need to know wtf they are doing and be able to articulate that in game... it just wont work. So if you get taken by a group who's doing bare minimum... kinda sucks but hey... I can guarantee you there are groups who go balls to the wall. Kinda like the mechanics who say "you need a repair... $500 bro".... vs the ppl who ring out a few random car parts and chats a bit. Trying to force others to a vision of how you think it should be... aint happening. My suggestion... show em how it's done. Maybe next time you go rob find those ppl and show them how a pro robs a store you know. Maybe they just don't know of other ways to approach the situation. Or maybe, just maybe, they aint comfortable with going full send with a character.

 

Long post. If you read till here cheers, I appreciate your time.

[Yama]

It's a tough situation for sure, but I appreciate where Titus is coming from.

On one hand it's taking advantage of someone with their pants down (literally), and on the other it's the pure lack of opportunities to take hostages in the city. Combine that with the severe case of "I don't want to deal with this right now" mentality of a lot of hostages and I can see how clothing shops are one of the go-to places for hostages. It's low risk and reliable, but honestly there isn't much else... I was trying to think of other opportunities, say grabbing a hunter or someone grinding a job and you'll likely run into even more bad attitude for interrupting the grind.

Maybe instead of green-zoning more areas, it might be more constructive to help think up new avenues for hostage taking, make the clothing shops less enticing. Or better yet, find ways to encourage more people to play along.

[vDrop]

Hayes Auto might be the most abused hostages lol. Just noting.

-1 to Green Zoning Clothing Stores or Mechanics. @Titus said it the best. 

[lords8n]

On 1/28/2022 at 6:06 PM, vDrop said:

Hayes Auto might be the most abused hostages lol. Just noting.

-1 to Green Zoning Clothing Stores or Mechanics. @Titus said it the best. 

I didn't think Hayes Auto mechanics got taken hostage that much, do they?