EMS and it's future

[Denver]

I think we can all agree that EMS is very important to the server. The RP EMS gives and gets is a vital resource for the city, and we couldn't do it without you. 

Which brings me to the point of this topic, it has been a headache for EMS lead for a while and to those that would like to interact with EMS, barely anyone clocks in. 

I'm not blaming anyone in this situation, but I feel "we" as a community need to come together to think of solutions which could make EMS want to clock in. 

So you could reply to this topic stating what you would like to see changed or added to the EMS faction, of which you think it could increase EMS availability on the server at all times. 

 

Please don't use this topic to talk negatively about anyone or any faction. As EMS would say, we're all neutral here. 

[Pvtoneill]

Here are some ideas that have been floating out there with non-whitelisted players.

• Create a ratio between total number of LSPD to EMS.
  • I personally hate seeing when I'm downed and that there are twenty PD on but zeo ems.
  • 5:1 ratio? Something not so dramatic to get a rise out of LSPD.
• Create a non-EMS job that can do some of the EMS work. Maybe Medical Transport?
  • Create a private ambulance that is priced high enough so Danny's won't do it ($120,000+)
  • Allow the job to locate and transport downed characters but not pick them up or heal them.
  • Non-whitelisted but also not found in the job center.
  • Set a high reward for being said job $5,000 per job.
  • Off-Color that is easilbly recognizeable as non-ems like this vehicle for example https://www.gta5-mods.com/vehicles/ambulancia-bombers-andorra or https://www.gta5-mods.com/vehicles/ambulancia-mercedes-benz-sprinter-061-galicia

Edited May 7, 2022 by Pvtoneill

[dK_]

I actually wouldn’t mind clocking in as EMS regardless of what type of RP I got, but then I was removed from the faction without warning or being contacted or giving a warning that the shift policy regarding snr Leo staff (I believe I was bcso sgt at the time) had changed. Because of the way it was handled without even attempting to contact me first about it I will not be rejoining that faction. Maybe it’s more then just the RP situations preventing people from clocking in. I remember back in the day when I was a paramedic we used no issues keeping people from clocking in. 

[MJ.]

1 hour ago, Richie Jax said:

I actually wouldn’t mind clocking in as EMS regardless of what type of RP I got, but then I was removed from the faction without warning or being contacted or giving a warning that the shift policy regarding snr Leo staff (I believe I was bcso sgt at the time) had changed. Because of the way it was handled without even attempting to contact me first about it I will not be rejoining that faction. Maybe it’s more then just the RP situations preventing people from clocking in. I remember back in the day when I was a paramedic we used no issues keeping people from clocking in. 

If you would like to discuss it, my DMs are open.

I feel like a big help will be when the knockout script comes in. It's annoying to go to the same people who are just constantly fighting. 

As EMS leadership, we will take everything said in this thread and see what will help benefit EMS in the best way possible. We will take any and all suggestions.  

[Pvtoneill]

So right now the server is completely full but no EMS on. The whitelist for the job isn't working.

[MJ.]

7 minutes ago, Pvtoneill said:

So right now the server is completely full but no EMS on. The whitelist for the job isn't working.

Whitelisting has nothing to do with why people are not clocking in. 

[Kali Soullover]

So for some of us it is a timing thing and many of us have other jobs.... and in my case right now I am working on getting some upgrades for my eyes and my ram but till then I can not be on at the peakest of hours without having MAJOR headaches and well things for me will change and you also have to think a lot of people have stuff out of city

[Yama]

I enjoy EMS more than anything else in the server. I love going in-depth with the RP, interacting with nearly everyone, and the idea of saving lives is just super fulfilling. However, it's mentally and emotionally draining at times, especially when you are the only one clocked in.

There have only been a few times that I've had a bad experience, and it's either when I'm being treated like a heal-bot and basically ignored on a scene, or when people complain about our response time directly to my face when I'm saving them. Then, you run into the folks that like to "mess with EMS," getting sexual or weird with your injuries or treatment or trying to catch us in a mistake and threaten lawsuits, we're already so stressed, it's just really hard to find the humor in those situations sometimes. These situations are extra demoralizing when you're backed up on calls and the only one on duty.

I'm not sure we need non-EMS transporters... half of the calls we respond to have the patient picked up by their friends already. Sure, that might be a result of having an understaffed EMS, and people are getting used to having to fend for themselves.  However, when we actually do have EMTs scrambling to reach every call during the busy hours, driving scene to scene without a patient just makes it feel like a waste of effort. It sounds like it should be helpful and it would be if we actually knew that someone was taking care of it, but from our end, we get a 911 dispatch and nobody is there.

Personally, I get gratification from just doing the job, like I said, I love interacting with everyone and I feel good when I get recognition from my own faction through promotions and comradery. We just need more people, plain and simple. Incentivize people to join and stick with EMS, you won't need to worry about keeping the few of us clocked in longer if there were more of us to start with.

[Tobegande]

There is no hiding that i enjoyed my time as Ems. it was a fun experience while it lasted, but this also beeing one of the reasons i desided to Retire from Ems.

When i started Ems eveything felt new and interesting. But with time things just seemed repetitive, this is ot be expected to some degree but i could with the hand on my heart say that the repetetivness that i experienced as Ems was not of the " you just keep taking calls" its was more in the RP that i was getting from the people i was helping. When i started people seemed interactive, interested and wanting of RP with Ems, something i have realised later is when someone is doing their Training for Ems people seem to "act" a little more for the aspect of training. now im not sure if this is just coinsidental but, i realised this is why i loved doing train people for Ems.... But RP is RP, Personaly i would love to still be a part of Ems, i loved everything i did with Ems and was honnesly upset to be leaving it. But my style of RP is of the Adaptive kind. and things happened to Tobe Stroll making him Reflect on things and have to make a desition for things. hence why the sourness landed on Stroll leaving Ems. with that being said, the server has its ups and downs when it comes to RP, we can go a month where everyone seem to lay dormant before we have a month or 2 with intereactive, energetic RP, this is when we usualy see changes to what people do on the server. these RP situatuions will and Sould change the characters to some degree, some more then others.

Tho i understand people just want to have Ems active on the Server, i at this point in time do not see Ems being able to cover majority of the day, Dont get me wrong with that, there is alot of people that work Ems, and does amasing work. what my statement is ment for is that i dont belive that the servers Ems at its current state is a "sustainable" enjoyment for the people involved unless you have a desire to do the work and for many it is either not enough action (early hours) or Stress full (few clocked in in popular hours). My Advice to Everyone, Dont be scared to act out your injuries, dont be afraid to want that medical RP.  The Staff at Ems wants Medical RP thats why they applied! if they only get "stubbed toes" and "bruised my knee" at every call. They are more likely to not enjoy it. To also make clear...  This does not only  have to be you acting "more" injured, but also make it interesting conversations with the ems personel when they are there, it might not be longer then 5-10 minuttes but for a Ems worker you should understand that if those 5-10 minutes might happen with 40 min between those 5-10 minuttes means alot for that persons RP experience!

Would also like to state that the addition of "local Ems" 10k pay has probably for some Ems made them less likely to clock in at certain times as they know the quantity of calls will be low. for these slow hours of Ems many will feel like them standing elswear would be more beneficial to the city/their character. part of me also wich that the Ems personell could tell how many is on duty, this would deffinetly have made me clock in more as i was used to be clocked in Solo. If i could see that someone els clocked in and i could hang around with that Ems whilst on duty and calls was slow. That would be lovely. but as there is no way to know if you clock in to Solo shifts or with someone it feels like a risk. you risk clocking in for 1h where you stand and do nothing. just to see complains about no Ems beeing around when you deside to then clock off. These complaints does not make the person want to clock back in for the same time the next day.

Sorry if this got messy,repetetive or hard to follow. but i felt like i should write atleast a fair bit. 

[Brendan Thomson]

21 hours ago, Pvtoneill said:

Here are some ideas that have been floating out there with non-whitelisted players.

• Create a ratio between total number of LSPD to EMS.
  • I personally hate seeing when I'm downed and that there are twenty PD on but zeo ems.
  • 5:1 ratio? Something not so dramatic to get a rise out of LSPD.
• Create a non-EMS job that can do some of the EMS work. Maybe Medical Transport?
  • Create a private ambulance that is priced high enough so Danny's won't do it ($120,000+)
  • Allow the job to locate and transport downed characters but not pick them up or heal them.
  • Non-whitelisted but also not found in the job center.
  • Set a high reward for being said job $5,000 per job.
  • Off-Color that is easilbly recognizeable as non-ems like this vehicle for example https://www.gta5-mods.com/vehicles/ambulancia-bombers-andorra or https://www.gta5-mods.com/vehicles/ambulancia-mercedes-benz-sprinter-061-galicia

Totally on board with a private medical transport - it opens up EMS staff to RP the fire side of LSFD and also perform more in depth medical RP if they so desire.

 

The ratio thing is usually just due to staffing and the situation.  PD don't respond to medical calls, so I'm assuming if you were surrounded by cops it's probably because they were chasing you lol

 

https://www.gta5-mods.com/vehicles/vapid-speedo-ambulance-add-on-liveries

Edited May 8, 2022 by Brendan Thomson

[D E M 0 N XIII]

I scrapped this part - cause it was huge and people probably skipped it. so here's the TLDR.
TLDR - We're treated like heal-bots, fail RP, Revive incentive instead of RP incentive, miscommunications

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The incentive for EMS is already there, the issue is earning the rank to get up to that paycheque.
I think if we want more EMS on shift the restrictions for joining and holding your job should be a little lighter, like a felony limit or something like that, like if you're caught stealing cars felony speeding, not really a big deal compared to if you're caught murdering someone, that's a little more intensive and you clearly don't care about their health and safety so why are you a registered EMS?? 3-5  felonies?? Maybe you should be reviewed for a criminal background check to see if those felonies include bodily harm on another individual, maybe another EMS needs to do a psych evaluation to see if that staff member is going to continue down that path, or if they want to smarten up and remain on staff as LSFD EMS.

Almost like minor criminal could be EMS depending on what felonies are on their record? idk.. I'm sure staff/admin could make it work some how.

I think EMS should be more in charge of the medical scene, get the injured to hint what injuries they want to have EMS deal with, then have EMS take charge of RP, after all, it's what we sign up for, medical roleplay. If 10-15 people go out and get downed and wake up in the hospital without their backpack and feeling weaker than they were  before - then they need to not get into situations where they gonna get hurt like that, cause the one EMS on shift is dealing with an invasive surgery to literally save someones life. 

I think the pay rate for revives should be reduced and the average hourly pay be increased with that reduction to eliminate the "heal-bot" mentality.
Stop going for revives. Go for RP. Reduce the revive incentive, promote RP incentive.

I very rarely see any higher-ranking EMS on duty - it seems like every high-ranking EMS is also an LEO and prefers to spend their time clocked in as LEO. 
Yet the server rules, it states "Your character cannot and should not be a "master of all trades"." I understand having roles that require training of both factions too. We've got multiple people who, on one character, can be a Lawyer, Realtor, high rank of EMS and high rank of LEO and who knows what else they're doing.

EMS, I think, should also be able to get away with selling minor medical supplies / medical drugs for a profit and offering first aid training to the public. 

Basic civilian first aid could also be available @ pillbox hospital similar to a firearms licence, it would allow for purchasing of better medical supplies and maybe a pharmacy in the hospital to act as a dollar-pills could include an expensive item that will revive a player similar to EMS revive, however that item will also act like a respawn, you keep your items, but your strength goes down and you gotta hit the gym again. Also! You NEED another civilian to use the item on you - you cannot use it on yourself. Pockets too heavy now?? Looks like you gotta drop some stuff and hit the gym.

In the end this is just my opinion and a statement of the way I've seen things in the past.
I have ommited quite a bit cause I didn't want this post to be as long as it is; but.. here we are.. haha

TLDR - Let EMS have less-severe felonies (ie: GTA, felony speeding, etc.), Roleplay incentive instead of Revive incentive, Medical staff in charge of medical RP. Expensive civilian revival tool for those with basic first aid. (similar to firearms licence)

Edited May 11, 2022 by D E M 0 N XIII
Double whammy post - added TLDR

[accoR]

As a late night person I can agree that the interest to clock in has gone way down due to either being the only person on duty, or the people you interact with make it unenjoyable. I wouldn't even consider myself knowledgeable about medical terms and such, but if a person wants the full surgery RP I will do my best and put a Lonnell spin on it. Its about creating fun/memorable experiences for each other, and that involves effort.
 
At late night hours people tend to not do as much "wild" stuff and try to play more safe knowing there aren't EMS on duty(META), which also leads to hours without calls. My biggest pet peeve as EMS is the way LEO's handle medical scenes. A majority of my calls from LEO's will consist of me ATTEMPTING to speak to the downed individuals while the officers stand over their lifeless bodies continuing a full conversation of whatever it may be. This goes for Civs as well, the disrespect shown to EMS by not even letting them communicate is frustrating. At this point, like others have mentioned in the thread, we have become heal bots.

The same behavior is seen when I am playing my crim character. When downed at a scene, its as if first aid training is forgotten about by the LEOS. I've had instances where LEO's will sit in their car next to me for over 5-10 minutes without saying a word while I lay on the ground, but the moment they get out of their car they begin to search my pockets. They might as well be grave robbing at that point. Even something as RP involved as a Prison Riot was devalued because after the LEOS breached the cells and gunned the prisoners down, they just carried on like it was another victory. They began calling people on their phones and talking smack to the prisoners instead of checking on the people they mowed down with AR's, all while I'm RPing my injuries.

I personally had to take a break from EMS due to the reasons stated, but bringing these things to light might help change the attitude towards medical RP. My goal was to do search and rescue as it fits the character I play, but that isn't even an option with only one person on duty according to SOPS. We as a community need to do better to allow the medical RP to happen, and treat this somewhat realistic instead of a cops vs robbers TDM server.
 

[vDrop]

Honestly! That Private Medical Transport wasn't a bad idea, and would be a an awesome business model is people were dedicated.... 

[lords8n]

Retired EMS here...

Let's see...I was always going to leave EMS it was just a matter of time until I did. Things had to be right and push me in that direction.
Two major things set the path for my leaving EMS.
The first (really the final straw) was being denied the ability to even go for my EMS helicopter certification. I spent 1.8 million dollars on a helicopter just to practice for my eventual testing that never happened. By this point I had already filled out numerous applications for various EMS certifications. How much more could I even write. EMS seniors knew everything there was to know about me. All of this because someone thought my application wasn't good enough, while another person's application was accepted, who's application was, in the opinion of others, worse than mine. This kind of single-point approval process is not very forthcoming. Seniors should have to actually discuss things like this amongst themselves and not be allowed to take it upon themselves to make these decisions singularly. Oh and that other person who's application was accepted? Yeah...after I retired I had to deal with this person landing their helAcopter in the middle of Hayes Auto several times with people and cars all over the place. Really safe! Inconsistencies like this were a game ender for me.

The second thing, and I put this purposely last because I think it may be the biggest thing that keeps people out of EMS. Just as I was on my way out, EMS reworked their entire SOPs and started adding these rules and doctor roles and fast responders (yeah I know it was there earlier) and regular EMS can't do surgeries and all this other complex stuff. I started to feel EMS was becoming more of a job than I cared for. I had to know some things and I learned them. I just wanted to be put in my ambulance and out there interacting with the community. I didn't even care if occasionally some people were salty and just wanted to be given a band-aid for 24 GSWs. I just wanted my job to be simple and for me to be able to do what I do. I thought having fast responders that called for transport was a bad idea. I always wanted to drive the ambulance and never wanted to transport anyone to the hospital. But with the fast responder role I, or the patient, would now not be the only ones that had a say in that. The fast responder could decide if "I" needed to transport and ultimately end up engaged in the hospital RP I wanted nothing to do with.

What I think happened is the senior medical staff, who all quite probably have a genuine love and interest in the medical field, and who make the rules, decided to make EMS more classically medical oriented and thus more complex to the point of turning away people wanting to join EMS to simply engage in some fun medical-ish RP. I didn't want to be an EMS, nurse, or doctor IRL, but felt like the entirety of the faction was being pushed in a direction where you basically had to have that interest due to the complexity they were building into it. I did try to go through the new SOPs with a fine-tooth comb to fix some inconsistencies...especially in who can and can't do surgeries. I didn't feel like my efforts were welcome.

I feel EMS seniors are more interested and concerned with what THEY want EMS to be than with what EMS needs to be to drawn in new recruits and keep it light, fun, and palpable by non-medical persons. EMS are no more EMS IRL than PD are officers IRL or gangsters are gangsters IRL.

[Yama]

1 hour ago, lords8n said:

Retired EMS here...

Let's see...I was always going to leave EMS it was just a matter of time until I did. Things had to be right and push me in that direction.
Two major things set the path for my leaving EMS.
The first (really the final straw) was being denied the ability to even go for my EMS helicopter certification. I spent 1.8 million dollars on a helicopter just to practice for my eventual testing that never happened. By this point I had already filled out numerous applications for various EMS certifications. How much more could I even write. EMS seniors knew everything there was to know about me. All of this because someone thought my application wasn't good enough, while another person's application was accepted, who's application was, in the opinion of others, worse than mine. This kind of single-point approval process is not very forthcoming. Seniors should have to actually discuss things like this amongst themselves and not be allowed to take it upon themselves to make these decisions singularly. Oh and that other person who's application was accepted? Yeah...after I retired I had to deal with this person landing their helAcopter in the middle of Hayes Auto several times with people and cars all over the place. Really safe! Inconsistencies like this were a game ender for me.

The second thing, and I put this purposely last because I think it may be the biggest thing that keeps people out of EMS. Just as I was on my way out, EMS reworked their entire SOPs and started adding these rules and doctor roles and fast responders (yeah I know it was there earlier) and regular EMS can't do surgeries and all this other complex stuff. I started to feel EMS was becoming more of a job than I cared for. I had to know some things and I learned them. I just wanted to be put in my ambulance and out there interacting with the community. I didn't even care if occasionally some people were salty and just wanted to be given a band-aid for 24 GSWs. I just wanted my job to be simple and for me to be able to do what I do. I thought having fast responders that called for transport was a bad idea. I always wanted to drive the ambulance and never wanted to transport anyone to the hospital. But with the fast responder role I, or the patient, would now not be the only ones that had a say in that. The fast responder could decide if "I" needed to transport and ultimately end up engaged in the hospital RP I wanted nothing to do with.

What I think happened is the senior medical staff, who all quite probably have a genuine love and interest in the medical field, and who make the rules, decided to make EMS more classically medical oriented and thus more complex to the point of turning away people wanting to join EMS to simply engage in some fun medical-ish RP. I didn't want to be an EMS, nurse, or doctor IRL, but felt like the entirety of the faction was being pushed in a direction where you basically had to have that interest due to the complexity they were building into it. I did try to go through the new SOPs with a fine-tooth comb to fix some inconsistencies...especially in who can and can't do surgeries. I didn't feel like my efforts were welcome.

I feel EMS seniors are more interested and concerned with what THEY want EMS to be than with what EMS needs to be to drawn in new recruits and keep it light, fun, and palpable by non-medical persons. EMS are no more EMS IRL than PD are officers IRL or gangsters are gangsters IRL.

I'm bummed to hear you felt that way. I know we've chatted about it in the past, but my DMs are always open if you have any suggestions or concerns.

I just want to note that we don't require any EMS member to be involved in any Med RP that they are not comfortable with, we don't want either side (patient/EMT) to be forced into RP. There's a good number of EMS that have voiced they are not interested in the deep medical RP, and that's fine! The Doctor and Nurse certification was created to give those that really are interested in that sort of RP an avenue to flex their stuff. It's hard to match the expectations of the EMS and the Patient, some want full open heart surgery after a shootout and some just want to be propped back up with a stick, we can only hope to meet somewhere in the middle.

At the end of the day, EMS seniors are just trying to make EMS fun and fulfilling for the members of the faction and the city. We're human too, some of the decisions that are made may fall flat, but at least we tried.

[lords8n]

24 minutes ago, Yama said:

I'm bummed to hear you felt that way. I know we've chatted about it in the past, but my DMs are always open if you have any suggestions or concerns.

I just want to note that we don't require any EMS member to be involved in any Med RP that they are not comfortable with, we don't want either side (patient/EMT) to be forced into RP. There's a good number of EMS that have voiced they are not interested in the deep medical RP, and that's fine! The Doctor and Nurse certification was created to give those that really are interested in that sort of RP an avenue to flex their stuff. It's hard to match the expectations of the EMS and the Patient, some want full open heart surgery after a shootout and some just want to be propped back up with a stick, we can only hope to meet somewhere in the middle.

At the end of the day, EMS seniors are just trying to make EMS fun and fulfilling for the members of the faction and the city. We're human too, some of the decisions that are made may fall flat, but at least we tried.

Keep in mind EMS is not exactly easy to get into with the amount of information one must learn and the training and ridealongs, being evaluated the whole time.
I don't see how police do it, besides the fact they at least get some release in being able to get into chases and shootouts regularly.
I talked to a lot of people interested in becoming EMS. Some gave it a try and liked it, some gave a try and didn't, and some didn't even get as far as to give it a try after learning what they had to do to become an EMS. It's difficult because EMS is not a glorious job. As EMS it can often feel as if you are just a side RP tool for PD and crims to use to complete their scenes. Eventually I started to just feel like a prop for all the real RP going on in the city. One interesting folly of being EMS is that you walk an otherwise dangerous city relatively untouchable out of inherent respect for the job. Never did I ever feel in danger, Teery Duhn aside, when I was working EMS. The SOPs and changes made as I left took an already large learning curve job and made it harder to learn from what I gathered. 

You seniors should focus on making becoming and being an EMT easier and less complicated up to, and possibly including, Paramedic, those who train new recruits. Anything above that should have a different set of more complicated SOPs for the hard core medical buffs in the city. It's tough, I know. I don't envy you guys.