Should we do not have cool things just because it can be abused?

[Tomas García]

Since I came to town and got back on track with some of the post. I think that some of the issues around town have something in common. Many nice things are limited because they need to be like that to do not be abused. Let me put some examples:     Note:I'm aware some are WIP and are been adjusted, but just using them as examples.

•  Dirt bikes: They break quite easy compared to the tough it should be if it was just used go in a circuit or off road.  And actually most of the bikes barely have any traction off road and much less up hill.  = Reason, because they were abused as runaway vehicle doing non-realistic escapes climbing up mountains.
• Scuba: There are post about making them more heavy or adding other limits, so they are more hard to carry around. = Reason, because some people carry scuba 24/7 on them to have it ready as a runaway tool.
• Store Robberies: There is a system in place so no robberies happen if there are less than 2 cops on duty. Meant to only allow robberies when it's balanced. Some want to change it so it's not exploit. = Reason, some use store robberies as a way to check if cops are online or not.

There are probably many other cases, those were just examples. This topic is meant to talk about how things should be in the city, more than talking about each specific case. Because currently things are trying to be designed so they can't be exploited and that really gives the city big limitations of how things could be. Also some people talk about finding a way to hide PD and EMS channels so people don't meta and go wild doing crimes or crazy things when they know there is no PD or that EMS are around.  I agree making the city all 'cheat' proof would be great and it's ideal but at what cost? Should we miss nice features just because some love to exploit them or abuse them? I do understand that as a non-whitelist the more protected the better but yet, sometimes the cost might not be worth it.

For example:

• Currently Development takes longer, scripting and drafting the ideas as they need to be  exploit-prof . Which means less time to do the next thing. (I don't mean develop things mid way, just that some of the dev is to make it fail prof when some of those fails are found by trying to push the limits quite clearly).
• New jobs/roles aren't even suggested because some could abuse them quite easy. For example. News reporter could be a job that gets some of the messages PD gets, like locals calling the news like they call the cops, or even the news guy having a radio that taps on the PD 'text' radio.  Since it would be fun to see News arrive to a location to record what's going on while the action is still going on. But these kind of jobs aren't been suggested because, mostly they would be abused just to get info and pass it along.
• New jobs for mainly newcomers: Delivery GoPostal or similar where a vehicle is rented out with a small deposit by the worker that will be refunded if the van is back in good condition. But that's not around so people don't just get one and go crazy doing VDM.

 

So my point is. Now that the city is quite full often, should be better to refresh that the server have some rules, they are few and clear, and those trying to find work around or pushing them intentionally might get warned or banned. So development can be focused in improving the city in a more normal manner and not just with nearly 100% fail proof jobs and features only?



 

[RogueTeacake]

Yeah i agree especially on the motorbike front there just afwul, completely useless. For the abusers could we just have a /report system or just kick them for unrealistic rp.

Its a really good server i mean the grind alone just to get a car or gun is real enough i think thats what gets rid of your grievers and bad players, not your other systems.

[Thorgs]

Well first off you need to keep in mind its a Public server so you will always have someone trying to push the limits or trying to exploit if they can vs. It being a whitelisted server and everyone knows and respects the rules or they get booted but they go in knowing and respecting it. So I'm sure other stuff is in the works just have to wait till they come out

[speed]

People will always use things to their advantage. Even on very hardcore servers, where the systems they have in place make it so that there's no reason to be playing on the server except to RP, people still abuse mechanics to their advantage to get the upper hand over others (watch TFRP sometime). It will always be that way. Unfortunately, because we have an economy to care for, as well as the enjoyment of all of our players to consider, we do have to be mindful of exploits.

That said, I don't think being mindful of exploiters is as much of an impediment on the development of the server as you think it is. @Serpico and I have been doing this for a long time, and we're usually able to design our content in a way that isn't easily exploited without much extra effort. In some cases, our "fixes" actually add more RP value to the server (the licensing system was originally introduced to decrease VDM and firearm RDM). Vehicles are a bit of an exception to that, mostly because GTA was designed to be a high action, fast paced shooter. Their concerns weren't balancing the speed of motorcycles with respect to people that want to use them to evade police on a RP server, so it's much more difficult for us to find a balance.

Honestly the thing that slows us down the most is just the amount of time we're able to dedicate to development, and the amount of things we want to do. We obviously both work full time, so that limits our dev time. We both have a list a mile long of things we would like to do, and we often start working on things but never finish them or finish them slowly because we get sidetracked by other ideas, or we can't implement the idea the way we want to.

So that's all to say that I don't think we really need to reevaluate the way we prioritize content development. Working around cheaters is pretty simple and not something that takes up a lot of development time. We just need more time in the day.

[Tomas García]

@Speed and any other higher ups reading it. Please don't take it as me trying to shift around the way things are going. I love the direction the server went since I joined, and all the new changes in the time I was taking a break. Your server is quite fun to play for all levels of RP players, and it's quite great in quality and safety against trolls for a open server (non whitelist).  This post was more to open a dialog in the community about finding different ways to cope with some of the current and future issues other than just add more limits and restrictions.

I have to agree, that making the development with dynamics that help to control the people like Licenses is quite the way to move. Since it sure saves the admins plenty of work, in a good way. Because any of you have limited time. And I rather that you guys use your time to develop more cool things and also enjoy the server from time to time..  because All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. So I didn't mean for you guys to reevaluate the way you are pushing out content out. If you keep the way you have done it till now, the server can only get better and better.

In a way this was more focused for the community in general so the suggestions for changes also take this into account. And staff wise, I was more like a reminder that trying to only make jobs or dynamics like the store robbery 100% exploit proof, it's impossible. As @Thorgs said, people will always try to exploit things. And for things to come? No rush. I know they will be great and doesn't matter how long it takes, we will be happy to wait.