Play it safe or risk it... Want your input

[Tomas García]

I already try to bring the topic up, and similar came to light but yet no real solutions. So I will share my last 'on the edge' experience.

As a LSPD I should protect citizens and sure do not use higher force than the one used by the civilians. In this situation I'm doing my best to do the arrest by the book, giving some wiggle room to the suspect which starts walking.  But I'm also playing my character, and sure there is no reason why He would like to risk his life more than needed.

So the predicament/question I what's the way I should proceed from now on:
a) Give  slack, since players might be nervous and press some keys by mistake or just be slow at it.
b)Shoot first and ask later. As soon as a player doesn't follow commands right away pull the trigger.

I'm happy to go with option a since it's the one that sure seems better to generate RP, but sure all the experiences I'm getting just indicate that most of the players will attack if given the chance. And, if any of you ever checked the video I made about QuickDrawing, will realize that whoever attacks/shoots first has the best chances, even at gun point. So that leaves me with option B, which might kill RP a bit if the player was just complying but nervous or miss-clicked something but sure it's the one that given the current situation seems the safer for my own character's life and safer for a police officer on duty. Tho the big drawback is also that police will seem more hostile even with small misdemeanors. And that will affect everyone.

Please throw your personal opinions on what you think and why do you think it. I want to hear different points of view.

[Kota]

You handled it perfectly in this situation IMO. You gave him clear warnings but you can't always predict how it is going to go. I would just keep doing what you're doing as I see nothing wrong with it. 

[Osk]

4 hours ago, Tomas García said:

I already try to bring the topic up, and similar came to light but yet no real solutions. So I will share my last 'on the edge' experience.

As a LSPD I should protect citizens and sure do not use higher force than the one used by the civilians. In this situation I'm doing my best to do the arrest by the book, giving some wiggle room to the suspect which starts walking.  But I'm also playing my character, and sure there is no reason why He would like to risk his life more than needed.

So the predicament/question I what's the way I should proceed from now on:
a) Give  slack, since players might be nervous and press some keys by mistake or just be slow at it.
b)Shoot first and ask later. As soon as a player doesn't follow commands right away pull the trigger.

I'm happy to go with option a since it's the one that sure seems better to generate RP, but sure all the experiences I'm getting just indicate that most of the players will attack if given the chance. And, if any of you ever checked the video I made about QuickDrawing, will realize that whoever attacks/shoots first has the best chances, even at gun point. So that leaves me with option B, which might kill RP a bit if the player was just complying but nervous or miss-clicked something but sure it's the one that given the current situation seems the safer for my own character's life and safer for a police officer on duty. Tho the big drawback is also that police will seem more hostile even with small misdemeanors. And that will affect everyone.

Please throw your personal opinions on what you think and why do you think it. I want to hear different points of view.

I learned my lesson before about getting too close to perps during arrests without taking precautionary steps.  In that situation what I would do is draw the tazer, keep it aimed at him, tell him to put his hands up and turn his back to me and not to move. Tell him if he does move in any way other than what I had instructed him then he will be tazed. That way if for some reason he doesn't do exactly what he's told he's getting tazed and I can deal with the arrest safely while he's on the ground. If they wanna move around and then get tazed and cry about how they didn't mean to move or didn't hear me whatever that's fine I did all I could do from my end to ensure the arrest goes as safely as possible for me and that's something they need to hear if they're throwing a fit about it. 

[Merr Khan]

You were also in whisper mode, so he may not have been able to hear you very well till you were too close. IMO when using a none lethal you can totally shoot first since 1: he wasn't obeying your commands. and 2: your alone with no backup. 

[BrandonM]

This, to me, is an example of FailRP. This is exactly what Anton was talking about the other day in the discord chat. The only reason the driver of the red car turned and fought was because game mechanics allowed him to do it. In a real life situation, you wouldn't turn around and punch a cop who has a taser or a gun to your back.  That, paired with the fact that he didn't speak at all, is a failure to roleplay in my opinion. If you want to behave like this, go play GTA Online. If you want to roleplay, actually roleplay. 

 

But to answer your question, the second he didnt follow your orders, you should have dropped that fool.

Edited September 26, 2017 by BrandonM

[TiLLeR]

While I appreciate a healthy discussion on this topic, those that lean on IRL as their justification should watch this video.  In the 2nd clip the cop has a taser and the person resisted.  Did the suspect fail at making a good choice?  Yep, but people who do this in game are not Failing RP.  They are resisting.   A situation like above could trigger a few responses.  It could result in the person complying.  It could also trigger one of our primal instincts which is fight or flight.  Every one of these responses has a natural consequence from saving your own life or dying at the hand of the attacker.  Fundamentally a player needs to choose for themselves which choice will lead to the most desirable outcome. To assume someone will make the same choice you would is unreasonable.

 

Edited September 26, 2017 by Tiller

[Tomas García]

Thank you very much at everyone for your input.
@Richard Power yeah you are right about that, I came from another scene and still had whisper on. Will make sure that doesn't happen, should get used to back to normal after any scene just like locking the car.

@Tiller I appreciate the examples. But comparing it to RL is a long shot. One of the main differences between real arrest and in game, is that in a real one there is a bigger window of interaction. If someone starts sparring no one goes down right away. With many weapons in close range is one hit and you go down. So going from hands up to drawing a weapon or jumping on the officer doesn't have as much of a warning as it might in RL. In one of the videos even a suspect starts walking towards the officer while he has the taser out, which last quite a bit and the officer is backing up while giving orders to the suspect. In game that's one click away from the attacker giving a lunge forward and hitting the officer.

So based in your input. I'm going to play it the more safe for my character and fellow citizens around us. Simply give the orders and as soon one is not followed, use the tazer. It might give little room for more soft arrests, but seems the best procedure given the current game limitations.

[SneakyAzWhat]

@Tomas García I think this is more of an experience/training thing. I believe there is value in applying examples and logic from real life because it helps serve as a point of reference. We take that information and evaluate it in conjunction to the game and mechanics.

Relating to your scenario -

Judging by the suspects vehicle he has already committed some crimes and potentially led you on a brief chase. At this point I am going to have my tazer out and assume the suspect will not be compliant.

At 00:05 you step out of your vehicle with a taser drawn (+1) and you have the vehicle for cover. Your position at this moment was great because we know in GTAV people can pull a gun reaaaally fast!

Your commands are great "get out of the vehicle and stick your hands in the air" BUT you give up your positioning! If he pulls a gun you are in a very defenseless position and possibly dead if you miss the taser shot.

At 00:14 he complies and sticks his hands up, this is a good start with him obeying BUT you move in before he is in a good position to be cuffed. You are giving him commands and moving into the danger zone (within range of him to punch stab etc). You've closed the gap for him which gives you less time to react if he becomes aggressive.

00:17 this guy should have been tased because he is not complying with your reasonable demand. He is luring you away from any kind of cover and protection with the fresh scent of donuts. A few odd motions and steps is OK but that guy was about to walk you all the way to the park from the looks of it.

You are subsequently assaulted and knocked out.

Things to learn from this:

Maintain a position of safety until backup arrives or until you have control of the situation. (Using your vehicle as cover while giving commands)

Stay outside of the "danger zone" of a suspect (Don't follow and close the gap on a suspect who is not being cooperative)

 

As a new Officer you did a fine job and have a good foundation, it can be very challenging to tell the difference between a new player who is confused and someone who isn't complying/has malicious intent. Keeping a safe distance and using the environment as a shield will go a long way to preserving your life!

[Osk]

10 hours ago, SneakyAzShiite said:

He is luring you away from any kind of cover and protection with the fresh scent of donuts.

I smelled them too.

[Tomas García]

Dammit I knew the tasty donuts was too fishy, but couldn't resist it.

Once more thanks for your advice everyone here. I think that also another way to make it safer if backup is coming, is to tell the other fella to stay in the vehicle with hands up, since that way he can't shoot at all. Also if car is running order to turn it off, till backup is around. Just learning a bit more every time, thanks everyone!

[D. Torretto]

I hate that people can do that glitch punch thing, that is not irl you cant just rapidly punch someone with one hand 4 times in a split second