Finger Prints - Discussion

[WTFjamie]

So from what i have expierenced so far it appears that there is no couterplay what so ever for criminals when it comes to using weapons for crime because there always seems to be fingerprints left.

 

now i am a person whos characters wear gloves 24/7 no matter what, and if their prints are taken by pd and they destroy the gloves, once hes out of prison guess what, he gets a new fresh set of gloves this is due to his careful nature and and doing everything possible to no leave prints.

 

now what is stupid is when 1 casing ties someone who is completelly blacked out wearing gloves gets caught cause of 1 bullet casing, there has to be some sort of counterplay for us criminals cause if there isnt then is there really any point in us blacking out and trying to not have crime come back on our gangs/groups? cause to me personally it feels like this mechanic is ment to give PD the end win even if the crims do somehow get away from the scene / situation

 

i would like to see what other people think about this and would love to hear peoples opinions

[ZaxxYs]

Going to leave this here and walk away XDDD. This is game breaking and needs to be looked at, it makes no sense IRL and it gives crim 0 ways to evade warrants no matter what.


"The residue that leaves fingerprints is a combination of oils (from cheetos, your hair, your face… take a shower already), and sweat. The sweat/water component would be vaporized, and while the oils may stick or corrode the cases, the heat and friction will take its toll and lower the quality. Add to that the size of the object. A 9mm or a .22 cartridge isn't very big so there isnt a great surface area to pull from. The handling required to remove the cartridge from the box, load into the mag, and ejection creates a lot of friction, and touches it several times (this is getting cheeky) and so there is a good chance prints get smudged or removed. So police can and do look at them but in the grand scheme of fingerprint evidence fired cases are borderline usless. In a case review at my lab I'll find a print at least 13/100 times on the magazine vs 1/1000 on ammunition. Give me the gun and I'll find a print 7/100 times."

[BoomRoasted911]

I would like to add that officers always have /me to take my gloves off when printing me at MRPD which means they understand you can’t get prints with gloves on. Also, how can that one bullet casing tie this person to several crimes the “crew” allegedly committed when no other evidence was found? Blood on scene, absolutely ties you to the scene but a casing?
 

As JT saiid, it seems pointless for criminals to do jobs in disguise in an attempt to not catch a warrant if they get away. How is that possible if a print can be pulled off every casing even if the gun is not registered to you personally? I’m all for taking an L of cops take me down in a chase or shootout but when you think you got away with it and finally got a W on a job (which are all much lower payouts now) just to have the entire force pick you up because a print on a casing was on scene makes it tough to even want to commit crime.

I get that cops are tying to stop crime but in GTARP you need crime for the server to work or else cops will only be giving traffic violations from here on out as crims will stop doing jobs because there is never a chance to win with all the mechanics PD have at their disposal. 
 

Again, love all the interplay between crims and PD in this server but it does seem like PD will always get the crim in the end regardless which makes it not as fun for crims IMO.

stay safe everyone! See you out there!

Duke Kaboom

[dK_]

There is a counter, anyone can see bullet casings, anyone can pick them up and remove. There are ways for a lawyer to counter, the issue is how limited lawyers are around aswell. 

[BoomRoasted911]

I agree Jax there are rarely any lawyers in the city. Always asked if I want an attorney followed by Pd saying none are around. I thought a higher ranking officer could work with us in those scenarios but it seems we are SOL of attorney is not clocked on. 
 

as for picking up the casings, it doesn’t seem realistic that in a shootout with class threes that the criminal would stay on scene for an additional 30 min to grab all casings dropped. I knew of this function but trying to to bring in the fact they are fired bullets like Elijah said, and there is also no tying the bullet to the “murder weapon” like IRL. Any fingerprints on the weapon with casings matching that gun is how normally it goes IRL but no script for that here. So we go with what we can in game which seems to be benefiting PD more so then not regardless if crim gets away. 

[Kota]

LOL there is a reason my crim has gone 4 months without a charge. Be a smarter criminal and PICK UP YOUR CASINGS!!!!
 

And my personal experience and conversations I have heard. Is people need to stop treating lawyers as a joke and a get out of jail free card. Even when they flat out gun people down in front of said lawyer or shoot said lawyer in the crossfire of their dumb shit. Then have the balls to be like I am gonna need you in a min. Is an example of why some lawyers I am sure are tired of clocking on. They're treated as a bot or a mechanic to strong arm the sentence in crims favor vs actually fighting legit instances of misconduct by officers or false sentencing. 

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by Kota Taylor

[WileyHunter]

Use a revolver…

[tay]

10 minutes ago, Kota Taylor said:

LOL there is a reason my crim has gone 4 months without a charge. Be a smarter criminal and PICK UP YOUR CASINGS!!!!

Thanks for this just put out a warrant! See you in Paleto punk!

 

Jokes aside, I think the whole evidence collection/processing could use a rework. Not only for it to make sense to criminals but to the PD as well. Maybe even procedures/standard on what/how much evidence is needed in order to place a warrant out for an individual who may have been involved.

Edited July 19, 2021 by tay

[Sheev]

Like Jax said, the counterplay for this is literally picking up your casings. 

imo, only reason this feature is being complained about is because cops used to be able to not do anything following a firefight between two gangs unless they saw something happen. THAT was unbalanced. 

On that same note, I agree it could do with some form of rework. Taking away this tool completely wouldn't be beneficial imo.
 

Edited July 19, 2021 by Sheev

[Knox]

Become a smarter criminal and dont rely on gun play to get away

[BoomRoasted911]

I understand completely about picking up casings and have done it before. I just feel it could use a rework. Someone has gloves on vs. not. etc. would be a tough script maybe?

I do like the idea of possibly needing more to get a warrant because the scenario I am speaking of they had nothing but once casing to tie to the scene. could have put a fingerprint on that testing out the gun of someone else and gave it back to them who committed the crime with the prints of both parties on it. Hit comes back on the one but doesn't mean he/she was actually on scene. You get blood, nail them. you physically see or hear them, WARRANT ISSUED! The one print pinned several charges from multiple locations to one person because the mechanic is known that "the only way fingerprints can be on this is if that one person fired it here on scene". It would be nice if some RP could be played out instead of relying on the mechanics and knowledge of how they work to nail someone on a warrant with minimal evidence. This could just be my love of the TV show CSI coming out here lol.

I also get 100% what Kota said about lawyers. Its the same with EMS IMO. they are most of the time made to be a revive bot by many which is why I try hard to give them great RP especially, work up injuries, go to surgery, etc. We all need to work better on that for sure and more people would be interested in clocking on. 

[Timr]

3 minutes ago, BoomRoasted911 said:

It would be nice if some RP could be played out

Of course, the same could be said for criminals who pull up beside the police and immediately open fire from vehicles with machine pistols in an attempt to break their buddy out of custody, but we will just gloss over that part...

[Kathryn Davies]

2 minutes ago, Timr said:

Of course, the same could be said for criminals who pull up beside the police and immediately open fire from vehicles with machine pistols in an attempt to break their buddy out of custody, but we will just gloss over that part...

Isn't that a totally different matter though? I think both sides of the law have work to do to make sure RP is high quality and enjoyable but on the point of fingerprints with gloves, that's just completely unrealistic and not necessarily fair. I'm sure it's something that's just in the script and wasn't intentional but even with that in place, I feel like if fingerprints are all you've got it's more of a reasonable suspicion than a probable cause situation.

[BoomRoasted911]

9 minutes ago, Timr said:

Of course, the same could be said for criminals who pull up beside the police and immediately open fire from vehicles with machine pistols in an attempt to break their buddy out of custody, but we will just gloss over that part...

Sorry if I upset you with what I said man. Was just trying to make conversation and figure this out. others have comments on the fact it could use some balancing other then me too. No worries though, I don't want to cause any issues. I suppose I see that scenario similar to a gang trying to hit the prison bus on the way to prison to bust out their guy. how was this different? 

Edited July 19, 2021 by BoomRoasted911

[ZaxxYs]

2 hours ago, Sheev said:

Like Jax said, the counterplay for this is literally picking up your casings. 

imo, only reason this feature is being complained about is because cops used to be able to not do anything following a firefight between two gangs unless they saw something happen. THAT was unbalanced. 

On that same note, I agree it could do with some form of rework. Taking away this tool completely wouldn't be beneficial imo.
 

So we are going for realistic RP in the server but you want 3 bleeding guys to pick up 300+ bullets casings after a shootout???? So you want me to stay in the scene where 6 cops died knowing that another 6 are coming?? (because that is not broken and that is totally fair btw) Is that the RP we want?? All im saying is that that mechanic needs to be looked at IRL it takes a long time to examine 300+ bullets casings and its not guarantee you will get a print let alone a FULL print, even after that you have no evidence that this person was shooting the gun and didnt just get robbed of it or sold it months ago. It needs to be balanced for both sides. We keep going down this road and we will go back to the PD needs to always win mentality and we will go back to having 20 people in the server. 

[ZaxxYs]

2 hours ago, Kota Taylor said:

LOL there is a reason my crim has gone 4 months without a charge. Be a smarter criminal and PICK UP YOUR CASINGS!!!!
 

And my personal experience and conversations I have heard. Is people need to stop treating lawyers as a joke and a get out of jail free card. Even when they flat out gun people down in front of said lawyer or shoot said lawyer in the crossfire of their dumb shit. Then have the balls to be like I am gonna need you in a min. Is an example of why some lawyers I am sure are tired of clocking on. They're treated as a bot or a mechanic to strong arm the sentence in crims favor vs actually fighting legit instances of misconduct by officers or false sentencing. 

 

Yes pick up 300+ casings after a shootout sounds like something people would do IRL and something that makes alot of sense. 100% agree with this. Great idea. 

[ZaxxYs]

33 minutes ago, Timr said:

Of course, the same could be said for criminals who pull up beside the police and immediately open fire from vehicles with machine pistols in an attempt to break their buddy out of custody, but we will just gloss over that part...

Yes, let me ask nicely next time. There are 20 different ways to break out a criminal in custody. Im sorry I will use the other 19 next time. Apologies boss.

Edited July 19, 2021 by ZaxxYs

[ZaxxYs]

9 hours ago, Richie Jax said:

There is a counter, anyone can see bullet casings, anyone can pick them up and remove. There are ways for a lawyer to counter, the issue is how limited lawyers are around aswell. 

You were there, you know how crazy it was, with all the locals and the 10 people shootout, and you know how another 6 cops showed up after the incident. Are you really suggesting that the best way to balance this mechanic is to have the crims stay there and pick up 300+ casings?? Come on bro. Really? 

[dK_]

I’m saying there is a counter to it, you said there is literally no counter. Another counter is also not to shoot down 5 cops to breakout the 1 person that was caught. The majority of times shootouts happen, cops are shot down and no evidence is collected and nothing comes from it. Occasionally it does and we get enough to validate an arrest, that’s RP for cops, we can collect evidence, put the pieces together and execute a type of arrest we go through hours of training to understand how to execute properly. Our RP is more then just negotiating for hostages and shooting people, we put in the work to collect and process evidence, get a warrant, find said person and execute an arrest. You may not see this side of it, and this is a level of RP for beyond just getting into shootouts. Could evidence be tweaked a bit? Maybe, as with everything else in the server it will always be evolving and changing. But if you want to think realistically what is the probability of a group of robbers coming back and attacking an entire police force to break out one member of the team who was caught? 

[Norton]

I would like to point this out since you guys may not know. Getting a casing from a scene that comes back to you does not automatically give us the right to arrest you for that crime. There’s more to it than that.

[ZaxxYs]

4 minutes ago, Richie Jax said:

I’m saying there is a counter to it, you said there is literally no counter. Another counter is also not to shoot down 5 cops to breakout the 1 person that was caught. The majority of times shootouts happen, cops are shot down and no evidence is collected and nothing comes from it. Occasionally it does and we get enough to validate an arrest, that’s RP for cops, we can collect evidence, put the pieces together and execute a type of arrest we go through hours of training to understand how to execute properly. Our RP is more then just negotiating for hostages and shooting people, we put in the work to collect and process evidence, get a warrant, find said person and execute an arrest. You may not see this side of it, and this is a level of RP for beyond just getting into shootouts. Could evidence be tweaked a bit? Maybe, as with everything else in the server it will always be evolving and changing. But if you want to think realistically what is the probability of a group of robbers coming back and attacking an entire police force to break out one member of the team who was caught? 

I agree that you guys need that other side of the RP but at least make it that it takes time to get finger prints?? It took 5 minutes for you guys to examine 300 casings? Find 1 partial fingerprint and pinned everything to him because of that? Once again, its a game, it has to be balanced, whats the point on wearing gloves and changing cars and etc etc, and realistically we should all be dead after a shootout lmao. Its a game it needs to be balanced, and im not afraid of speaking my mind and talking about the things I believe are broken.

[ZaxxYs]

Just now, DrJBruh said:

I would like to point this out since you guys may not know. Getting a casing from a scene that comes back to you does not automatically give us the right to arrest you for that crime. There’s more to it than that.

Well well well, that was not the case lol.

[AngelB]

8 minutes ago, Richie Jax said:

I’m saying there is a counter to it, you said there is literally no counter. Another counter is also not to shoot down 5 cops to breakout the 1 person that was caught. The majority of times shootouts happen, cops are shot down and no evidence is collected and nothing comes from it. Occasionally it does and we get enough to validate an arrest, that’s RP for cops, we can collect evidence, put the pieces together and execute a type of arrest we go through hours of training to understand how to execute properly. Our RP is more then just negotiating for hostages and shooting people, we put in the work to collect and process evidence, get a warrant, find said person and execute an arrest. You may not see this side of it, and this is a level of RP for beyond just getting into shootouts. Could evidence be tweaked a bit? Maybe, as with everything else in the server it will always be evolving and changing. But if you want to think realistically what is the probability of a group of robbers coming back and attacking an entire police force to break out one member of the team who was caught? 

So why is not okay for our group but okay for others. Should we of asked to play taser tag with you cops after this like others do... doesnt make sense at all in RP nor IRL.

[Norton]

5 minutes ago, ZaxxYs said:

Well well well, that was not the case lol.

Depends on the circumstances. You roll around with a crew do specific things, drive specific cars, act certain ways officers are not robots we pick up on those things. If he was found near or on the scene and he denied he shot on that scene and we run prints and he was lying he got caught. I wasn’t there so I’m not aware of everything I’m just attempting to shed light on what may have happened.

[ZaxxYs]

Just now, DrJBruh said:

Depends on the circumstances. You roll around with a crew do specific things, drive specific cars, act certain ways officers are not robots we pick up on those things. If he was found near or on the scene and he denied he shot on that scene and we run prints and he was lying he got caught. I wasn’t there so I’m not aware of everything I’m just attempting to shed light on what may have happened.

So very short for you, we were all blacked out (no skin showing), stolen cars, voice changers, did a Vangelicos, got away, 2 guys were being chased by foot, came back, got into a shootout, won the shootout, got away, we all have warrants, 6 cops show up to grab Duke for the warrant. What is the counter play? None. That is pretty much what happened.  Love you bro