Reducing Gunplay, Promoting RP

[Samantha Hatfield]

Criminal RP has gotten to a point of GP > RP, countless times over the past few weeks; there is a overabundance of class 3 weapons and attacks done on groups.

There is more to RP then just shoot shoot, pew pews. I know it's not just myself noticing it, but dozens of other players within the community whom feel this way, it's a constant battle of guns over words.

Now, before you say "Hey, just make a report"; there could be otherways to mitigate this in RP from different sides. I feel like reducing the amount of Class 3's that are produced should be one, as most scenes involved a Class 3 now-a-days. Espically with the price they come at,

What are ways, this could be mitigated by changing of rules or in RP, so people make more of a story and promote what they represent in their RP character.

[dK_]

triple all fines related to gun crimes lol

[Randy Jones]

3 hours ago, Richie Jax said:

triple all fines related to gun crimes lol

Tbh that would be one way, or maybe increase the charge for possession of a class 3? I agree to a point with this. People are just constantly shooting to get away not really seeing whole lot of effort put into RP lately. I've been seeing people using class 3's to rob a 24/7 store which to me seems absolutely insane. Maybe to balance it out if someone gets caught using a class 3, give PD the opportunity to raid the person's property? This is coming from someone who has a criminal character and has dealt with a lot of these class 3 weapons, I think it's time. If people faced the opportunity of getting raided for that class 3 people would only be using them when they have some sort of solid plan in a place for a big job, and that's how I feel they should be being used in my opinion.  

Edited November 27, 2021 by Randy Jones

[TacoBlowfish]

Took look at this from a crim main standpoint. Class three's are our only option at  this point. Very seldomly do we get a fair chance to do a getaway for a standoff. Whether its cops showing up with 4 officers for a simple robbery, before calling backup. TEU cars responding to robberies. If you try to take a hostage with anything other than a class 3, either the hostage or the people around you try to gun you down. Air one showing up for almost everything now. Its getting a little absurd. We get shit for stashing cars for get-aways. We rarely get more than a 3-5 minute chase before pits start being attempted. Tazed as soon as we get on motorcycles or getting in a car with someone picking us up. Our guns are way weaker than the Pd (Look at the carbine rifle with almost no recoil, to our equivelant of the ak/techie with HELLA recoil.) And if one of us goes down. we are fucked. we cant have someone else come swoop in and help like PD can. One of yall go down and another one can take their place. Your guns and armor are less than 2 grand to load yourself up, wheras for us its roughly 60k to fully gear up. You guys go down in a situation. you loose 30-40 minutes in time for EMS and Processing. We go down and we lose almost 2 hours with ems, processing, discussing charges, then prison time. 15k in fimes, then 60k of gear gone. if we try to do a job like using a bugstar van and dressing up. if we make a workorder to try and help us, 7/10 tmes the officer will SUPER analyze it and if we forgot one little piece of information they think we need (i.e. an adress) they will immediately say we are lying and start detaining us and start searching. Limiting the amount of class three's we can produce is the LEAST of the problems.

[James]

Have you thought maybe just maybe the police response is the reason more class 3's are being used? I'm not painting the entire police force with this brush but it has become increasingly more difficult to make money as a criminal as a by-product of more police being on duty and being trained, and the actual response to certain crimes.

For example I have seen a police bike be used almost constantly no matter the crime from a GTA to a store robbery, it gets used way too much whilst being one of the best police vehicles out there. The chances to out drive that bike are few and far between unless the they mess up usually. Before the bike it was the Raptor. Resorting to using class 3's is more than likely a by-product of this where if criminals weigh up their options and probably feel like the best way is shooting their way out. Vehicles like these should be used in certain situations and as part of a measured response.

Quote

 give PD the opportunity to raid the person's property

This should only be an option when some is a repeat offender in a short amount of time and an obvious danger to society or after some serious investigative RP , otherwise I think its too much in my opinion. 

 

[Lildoc3]

Tbh i have been on the fence about this for weeks maybe months now.  Our server thrives on grinding or interaction yet when some officers and/or deputies brush off what crims do it doesn’t make us want to follow the law. Yes we should fear the law but at the same time cops should fear gangs and their capabilities. But at the same time we as crims shouldn’t be met with excessive response. I have witnessed several robberies now where more than 5 cops are on scene and no one makes the call to pull back units and to top it off when they arrive immediately they pull ars and shotguns for a tech9 or deagle, which dwarf in comparison to the cop weapons. At the same time you can land every shot on a cop and they stand there or even push rather than taking cover while with full armor it takes about 4 solid shots to take a crim down. Balancing is one argument but regulation is another, maybe some higher rank officers need to step back and see where they have led their respective departments and see the outcomes that cause crims to want to take out officers. Also IA’s are a little difficult to understand or fill out in my opinion when it’s not a one officer thing 

[Desolaris]

3 hours ago, magicUK said:

Have you thought maybe just maybe the police response is the reason more class 3's are being used? I'm not painting the entire police force with this brush but it has become increasingly more difficult to make money as a criminal as a by-product of more police being on duty and being trained, and the actual response to certain crimes.

For example I have seen a police bike be used almost constantly no matter the crime from a GTA to a store robbery, it gets used way too much whilst being one of the best police vehicles out there. The chances to out drive that bike are few and far between unless the they mess up usually. Before the bike it was the Raptor. Resorting to using class 3's is more than likely a by-product of this where if criminals weigh up their options and probably feel like the best way is shooting their way out. Vehicles like these should be used in certain situations and as part of a measured response.

This should only be an option when some is a repeat offender in a short amount of time and an obvious danger to society or after some serious investigative RP , otherwise I think its too much in my opinion. 

 

+1 I agree to an extent.  I feel its a never ending cycle of both peoples " amping up " against one another. I'm still all for removing the cap for 60months and the max amount on rest. Having a class 3 shouldn't be something that you should flounder around with, The city as a whole needs to increase prices on class 3's IMO. Most (younger) cops also need to learn you don't have to Win every scene, The amount of times Stewie ( My cop ) has "Tripped" over a rock during a foot pursuit exceeds the bullets fired in this city.. Make it fun for everyone, Know when to catch someone and when to "Trip over a rock" 

Also too many officers at one scene is something a Dispatch officer will help out with in the future, I know me and A bunch of others are pushing to get that spun up into existence..

That's my short rant and shitty opinion

[StareDown]

-1 to reducing class threes. Personally, I agree having spent a bunch of time doing stuff on Crim the past little bit, once you get out on foot or get stuck in a bad situation, sometimes the only way out is to shoot. Criminals lose quite a bit if they get caught, depending on what it is they're doing. PD has ways to do raids, doing it because someone used a class three is not a good solution personally, right now if a criminal is getting chased on foot, their only option is to smoke meth which still doesn't do much, or shoot/stab their way to freedom. They can't exactly negotiate their way out of it.

[Lydia Jax]

7 hours ago, magicUK said:

Have you thought maybe just maybe the police response is the reason more class 3's are being used? I'm not painting the entire police force with this brush but it has become increasingly more difficult to make money as a criminal as a by-product of more police being on duty and being trained, and the actual response to certain crimes.

For example I have seen a police bike be used almost constantly no matter the crime from a GTA to a store robbery, it gets used way too much whilst being one of the best police vehicles out there. The chances to out drive that bike are few and far between unless the they mess up usually. Before the bike it was the Raptor. Resorting to using class 3's is more than likely a by-product of this where if criminals weigh up their options and probably feel like the best way is shooting their way out. Vehicles like these should be used in certain situations and as part of a measured response.

This should only be an option when some is a repeat offender in a short amount of time and an obvious danger to society or after some serious investigative RP , otherwise I think its too much in my opinion. 

 

So, this is what bugs me. Everyone complains about the police vehicles, yet you guys have drag bikes, along with other fast cars. No matter what they do to police vehicles it's never enough for crims. You guys have it set in your minds what police vehicles can and cannot do. Crims think the TEU car goes 220, which is BEYOND not true. Nothing is good enough for crims on PD side of things. 

[AtomicGinger]

Maybe, just maybe, the issue is that people want to treat Badlands as a Cops v Crim server versus a true roleplay server where unique characters are created that have depth and backstory rather than going full gang gang because it's "more fun." Your number one goal shouldn't be to out play, out gun, or out run the cops every single damn day. It should be to create a story and feed off the energy of those you are roleplaying with; both cops AND civs. The grand issue isn't that the cops are OP or the crims are asshats and one side or the other is too damned extra. The issue is that no one wants to legit roleplay and would rather play GTA Online in a FiveM server.

The fix isn't going to come from any rule change or changes with the PD itself. This issue can only be resolved by the community coming together and stepping up their RP game and doing more than gang gang shooty shooty bang bang at cops. There's more to gang RP than planning your 100th bank robbery for the week and setting up traps for the cops. Hell, there's more to RP period than just dealing with cops. Spread the love.

[Lydia Jax]

Crims use Class 3's for anything. An officer responding to a drug call should NOT be lit up by an LMG for trying to stop and question the guy. And before anyone says "That doesn't happen". It SURELY does, I was a witness on that scene. Crims are the one who hunt down officers for doing their jobs. My husband and I had a target on our backs for doing our job. Imagine you're patrolling and a car pulls up to you and sprays your PD car down with a class 3. Crims should possibly consider having a meet up and discussing the use of them between the crim "underground world". BCSO/PD are not perfect, but we also work with what we're given. Also would like to point out, we have to RACK OUR CLASS 3'S. Imagine you being called to a scene, all the sudden you're being sprayed with a rain storm of bullets. We have to then find a safe way to get to our vehicles and unrack our guns. Most of the time it ends up heavy pistol vs. Class 3's. Crims are the ones who sell and produce these guns. Maybe RP out finding whose selling them in bulks or such. Use RP.

Edited November 28, 2021 by Lydia Jax

[Erwin]

26 minutes ago, Lydia Jax said:

Crims use Class 3's for anything. An officer responding to a drug call should NOT be lit up by an LMG for trying to stop and question the guy. And before anyone says "That doesn't happen". It SURELY does, I was a witness on that scene. Crims are the one who hunt down officers for doing their jobs. My husband and I had a target on our backs for doing our job. Imagine you're patrolling and a car pulls up to you and sprays your PD car down with a class 3. Crims should possibly consider having a meet up and discussing the use of them between the crim "underground world". BCSO/PD are not perfect, but we also work with what we're given. Also would like to point out, we have to RACK OUR CLASS 3'S. Imagine you being called to a scene, all the sudden you're being sprayed with a rain storm of bullets. We have to then find a safe way to get to our vehicles and unrack our guns. Most of the time it ends up heavy pistol vs. Class 3's. Crims are the ones who sell and produce these guns. Maybe RP out finding whose selling them in bulks or such. Use RP.

 

I can 100% agree with cops being hunted down and lit the hell up, it literally happened a couple days ago where a group of 4 got pissed off because we went to go for a warrant, and they started hunting down and shooting every LSPD officer with class 3's. 

[TacoBlowfish]

1 hour ago, Lydia Jax said:

So, this is what bugs me. Everyone complains about the police vehicles, yet you guys have drag bikes, along with other fast cars. No matter what they do to police vehicles it's never enough for crims. You guys have it set in your minds what police vehicles can and cannot do. Crims think the TEU car goes 220, which is BEYOND not true. Nothing is good enough for crims on PD side of things. 

But we aren't using those? I mean, at least our crew uses stolen civ cars or upgraded local cars for jobs. Anytime a post like this comes up it just turns into every one bashing each other. I dont know the solution, but limiting one of the only viable options we have left is not it.

[Ascendancism]

3 hours ago, Lydia Jax said:

So, this is what bugs me. Everyone complains about the police vehicles, yet you guys have drag bikes, along with other fast cars. No matter what they do to police vehicles it's never enough for crims. You guys have it set in your minds what police vehicles can and cannot do. Crims think the TEU car goes 220, which is BEYOND not true. Nothing is good enough for crims on PD side of things. 

Unfortunately this goes both ways. We have police officers who think they know CIV vehicles asking for nerfs & balance changes because they can't catch someone(TRX, Cara Cara, CTS, Drafter, Need I go on?). Asking someone to spend 150+ thousand on a vehicle just to have it changed imo isn't right. You should get the product you pay for and I believe many civs feel the same way. To argue that some police vehicles haven't had incredible capabilities is false, but I do agree that yes as criminals we've stolen a lot of cop cars.. And they do go very fast, but not 220. They handle better than 80% of the civ cars and they're made for catching people. People tend to opt out of bikes atleast in my group because they're way to easy to stage a getaway with. Just remember that this is a double edged sword and both sides complain, consistently. 

 

5 hours ago, StareDown said:

-1 to reducing class threes. Personally, I agree having spent a bunch of time doing stuff on Crim the past little bit, once you get out on foot or get stuck in a bad situation, sometimes the only way out is to shoot. Criminals lose quite a bit if they get caught, depending on what it is they're doing. PD has ways to do raids, doing it because someone used a class three is not a good solution personally, right now if a criminal is getting chased on foot, their only option is to smoke meth which still doesn't do much, or shoot/stab their way to freedom. They can't exactly negotiate their way out of it.

In my experience (and I'm not tryna paint the police with a brush) I've had cops who go with it and are willing to de-escalate a situation, however i've also dealt with the polar opposite where they are encouraging a gun fight because they want to engage in gunplay. This happens consistently enough where police won't put their hands up even when outnumbered without a weapon even pulled. I will 100% agree that criminals feel forced to use class 3s to defend against anything they're doing because they have a chance of running in to the super trooper with the class 3  on the other end. Why would anyone take chances against people who have class 3's glued to their backs who are known generally in the 'criminal underworld' as trigger happy hypocrites? The only advice I can give is plan and outwit through roleplay. The police aren't a force you are meant to win against. Though with good planning and human error anything is possible. Especially with a good crew. 

[James]

Quote

So, this is what bugs me. Everyone complains about the police vehicles, yet you guys have drag bikes, along with other fast cars. No matter what they do to police vehicles it's never enough for crims. You guys have it set in your minds what police vehicles can and cannot do. Crims think the TEU car goes 220, which is BEYOND not true. Nothing is good enough for crims on PD side of things. 

So I think you may have misunderstood where I'm coming from, but let me try and explain it further.  By responding to every single crime in the best the police have to offer you're really limiting criminals to using the same few vehicles over and over. All I'm saying is that maybe you should respond differently depending on the situation, for example a grand theft auto should not illicit the same response as a pacific standard. A stolen local car in front of a bank should not illicit the same response as maybe a supercar parked in front of it. 

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This issue can only be resolved by the community coming together and stepping up their RP game and doing more than gang gang shooty shooty bang bang at cops

I feel like this is what a lot of cops believe most criminals in the city do. This is far from the truth, some of the biggest RP enablers I've met have been on the criminal side. That said I've had a lot of great RP moments with the cops too. I wish I could have more. I feel like there is quite a bit missing in the sense there could be more investigative RP and maybe that's because we as crims don't get to see that much, but it seems lately that its hard to even get a warrant as criminal.  Like if you have any ideas also how more investigative RP can be enabled from the criminal side, I'm all ears, and feel free to DM on discord.

Quote

Crims use Class 3's for anything. An officer responding to a drug call should NOT be lit up by an LMG for trying to stop and question the guy. 

Was the officer alone? Was the officer in known gang territory? Was the person they were trying to question gang affiliated?  Like you can say that should not happen, but if the answer to all three of those is yes, I can definitely see the case for it happening but it definitely depends on the scenario.  There should be places in the city where cops, civilians and even other criminals are scared to go because of the repercussions. 

[Lydia Jax]

45 minutes ago, magicUK said:

So I think you may have misunderstood where I'm coming from, but let me try and explain it further.  By responding to every single crime in the best the police have to offer you're really limiting criminals to using the same few vehicles over and over. All I'm saying is that maybe you should respond differently depending on the situation, for example a grand theft auto should not illicit the same response as a pacific standard. A stolen local car in front of a bank should not illicit the same response as maybe a supercar parked in front of it. 

I feel like this is what a lot of cops believe most criminals in the city do. This is far from the truth, some of the biggest RP enablers I've met have been on the criminal side. That said I've had a lot of great RP moments with the cops too. I wish I could have more. I feel like there is quite a bit missing in the sense there could be more investigative RP and maybe that's because we as crims don't get to see that much, but it seems lately that its hard to even get a warrant as criminal.  Like if you have any ideas also how more investigative RP can be enabled from the criminal side, I'm all ears, and feel free to DM on discord.

Was the officer alone? Was the officer in known gang territory? Was the person they were trying to question gang affiliated?  Like you can say that should not happen, but if the answer to all three of those is yes, I can definitely see the case for it happening but it definitely depends on the scenario.  There should be places in the city where cops, civilians and even other criminals are scared to go because of the repercussions. 

The fact that the deputy responding to the drug call that got sprayed by an LMG was on the beach, a public area that isn't "gang territory", the guy was not a gang member, and was going to get questioned on what he was handing off. There is NO reason for someone to use an LMG while selling drugs. 

[Billryethejewishguy]

Gonna quote one of the recent lines on one of my warrants... 

 

"### **Brief Summary**

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES AT ALL
!!!!ABSOLOUTLY NO TIME OR RESTITUTION OFF NO MATTER WHAT!!!!!
FULL 60 MONTHS, 15k Restitution"

 

Now when you see something like this frequently why wouldn't a criminal just say screw it and stab a cop in response to the excessive force?

 

 

[Randy Jones]

42 minutes ago, Billryethejewishguy said:

Gonna quote one of the recent lines on one of my warrants... 

 

"### **Brief Summary**

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES AT ALL
!!!!ABSOLOUTLY NO TIME OR RESTITUTION OFF NO MATTER WHAT!!!!!
FULL 60 MONTHS, 15k Restitution"

 

Now when you see something like this frequently why wouldn't a criminal just say screw it and stab a cop in response to the excessive force?

 

 

Warrants don't look like that very often. I think Atomic Ginger made a good point and everyone kind of just looked over it and kept arguing about class 3's and criminals this. If everyone PD included started focusing more on RP and more about building up those stories and getting out there and interacting with the community then we wouldn't all even be on this topic discussing this right now. Overall I think the community as a whole needs to focus on what we should be, our rp.  To much do I hear cops talking about how that criminal is toxic, or criminals talking about how PD handled the situation was dumb. We need to stop thinking about this server as cops vs criminals or as a gang server because that's the overall mentality I see. I'm not speaking to everyone I know a lot of the community puts effort into their RP and I know I can put more effort into mine I'm guilty of it. Overall I think the community is great and a lot of people do put effort into some interesting RP, but if we all just make a bit more of a effort including myself, Badlands could more than just the cop vs gang majority it is and has been for awhile.  

[Billryethejewishguy]

15 minutes ago, Randy Jones said:

Warrants don't look like that very often. I think Atomic Ginger made a good point and everyone kind of just looked over it and kept arguing about class 3's and criminals this. If everyone PD included started focusing more on RP and more about building up those stories and getting out there and interacting with the community then we wouldn't all even be on this topic discussing this right now. Overall I think the community as a whole needs to focus on what we should be, our rp.  To much do I hear cops talking about how that criminal is toxic, or criminals talking about how PD handled the situation was dumb. We need to stop thinking about this server as cops vs criminals or as a gang server because that's the overall mentality I see. I'm not speaking to everyone I know a lot of the community puts effort into their RP and I know I can put more effort into mine I'm guilty of it. Overall I think the community is great and a lot of people do put effort into some interesting RP, but if we all just make a bit more of a effort including myself, Badlands could more than just the cop vs gang majority it is and has been for awhile.  

Completely missed the point... I know that not every warrant looks like this but the attitude is there is a must win stigma with the cops from them trickling in one by one by one when a LSPD/BCSO goes down to even though the guy is disguised or has his face covered we know who it is because voice id, to breaking out bulletproof bus's/cars for transports It just takes the fun out of it, when you know the end result of no matter what you do is going to be the max you will have criminals just say screw it im going out blazing because I know I wont get any wiggle room.

[Brak]

As a single (crim) toon player i noticed within my own group that in the past month or two it has been very GP no RP and i have taken steps within my group to change that around. But since doing so i have noticed that in general there isnt much RP to be found involving PD on the couple recent interactions i have had. Weather it be getting shot at first, Getting mowed down by a class 3 while running away from a scene on foot, Or getting tazed for just being in the general vicinity. Now with that being said im not gonna die on the hill of us crims are perfect or anywhere close to but i feel the PD is met with excessive force from the crims for a couple of reasons. #1 being that the imbalance in pay for illegal jobs vs legal jobs and the fact that pay for legal jobs is always a moving target. Yes i understand that once the general public realizes that one job or the other pays better it is abused or figured out how to abuse it till it is nerfed i am guilty of that myself because sometimes i just wanna make an honest buck and go find some people to RP/chill with. Im not saying this is the answer but it escalates the violence and GP in illegal jobs to a must win to acquire currency to go do things. I feel all the legal jobs (Job Center Jobs) should be equal so not everyone is doing the same thing. And yes some say you don't need money to RP which is true to a point but without money you dont get RP interaction on random gambling, racing cars, buying antiques/collectibles and a handful of other things. #2 to my point is 9 times out of 10 your gonna get the max time and restitution which doesn't help with the GP situation and adds to the currency problem as well. Potentially upping the max time you can be incarcerated and making it unknown would make people ease up on just going all out knowing they are only going to do 60mo and 25k. But with that being said there would have to me more negations/lawyers present to facilitate that. I think players would be more apt to make more RP in this department (I personally would) if I knew there was an option to do 120mo or something and not have to pay fines or greatly reduced ones anyway. And yes i could go on and on about our gear cost and pd gear cost and cars and all that but thats just beating a dead horse at this point. I don't see the answer being more expensive gear or less of it the mentality around it needs to change there is an issue deeper than that. 

[JJRambow]

Cracks Fingers Watch this Space

Edited November 28, 2021 by JJRambow

[Norton]

5 hours ago, Billryethejewishguy said:

Gonna quote one of the recent lines on one of my warrants... 

 

"### **Brief Summary**

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES AT ALL
!!!!ABSOLOUTLY NO TIME OR RESTITUTION OFF NO MATTER WHAT!!!!!
FULL 60 MONTHS, 15k Restitution"

 

Now when you see something like this frequently why wouldn't a criminal just say screw it and stab a cop in response to the excessive force?

 

 

Warrants don't look like this very often unless circumstances call for it. What's going on is not going to have cops want to back down if anything you'll be met with more force, and this all has very little to no RP value what so ever.  

[lords8n]

The police must be OP to handle grind crims. Absolutely understand and agree.
The problem is there are too many cops that are playing the game and can't throttle in line with RP.
These cops go 110% 100% of the time, regardless.

You're lying in the bed that you made PD.
Regulate from within or the crims will regulate from without.

...or just remove class 3's and change the server name to coplandsrp

[Budal]

I am generally a fan of "Gunplay" i would take a gunfight over cheesy getaway any time of the day. That being said you have to allow people to talk their way out of shit, when you arrive at a robbery, instead of instantly going "What are your demands" Try to talk to them a bit, calm them down, negotiate and try to push for a different outcome. This point also extends to the criminals, yes you want the money,but by not allowing the cops even the opportunity to catch you, you miss out on a lot of fun. Lets stop using hostages for 24/7's and Digidens its stupid, makes no sense and you will see a lot more varied interactions with LEO's. On the flip side, don't attempt to breach as soon as you don't see a hostage, be willing to let some things slide.  To end it off, its both sides that need to chillax. Crims stop chasing that money so hard, its literally worthless. Cops be willing to "Believe some stories" or if its too dangerous let people go and then write a warrant for them.

[Norton]

Just now, Budal said:

I am generally a fan of "Gunplay" i would take a gunfight over cheesy getaway any time of the day. That being said you have to allow people to talk their way out of shit, when you arrive at a robbery, instead of instantly going "What are your demands" Try to talk to them a bit, calm them down, negotiate and try to push for a different outcome. This point also extends to the criminals, yes you want the money,but by not allowing the cops even the opportunity to catch you, you miss out on a lot of fun. Lets stop using hostages for 24/7's and Digidens its stupid, makes no sense and you will see a lot more varied interactions with LEO's. On the flip side, don't attempt to breach as soon as you don't see a hostage, be willing to let some things slide.  To end it off, its both sides that need to chillax. Crims stop chasing that money so hard, its literally worthless. Cops be willing to "Believe some stories" or if its too dangerous let people go and then write a warrant for them.

@Budal You could not have said it any better +5000. I feel that's the core of the issue here. I'm personally not a fan of gunplay as much but once in awhile it's warranted and enjoyable as long as it's planned out and makes sense. What's going on right now doesn't make sense and is only going to make things worse. It shouldn't be about the money grind it should be about the RP and interactions that you get out of it. The fact that I see 'hood' gangs with super cars makes no sense to me and honestly never will. I'll be first to say if a crew gives me a great story and puts effort into a situation and has covered all holes in their story on a robbery or something I will go with it REGARDLESS OF PREVIOUS ARRESTS AND RECORDS. RP appreciation goes a long way. atleast with me. I agree some cops could do better with this as could some crims that ask for the basic bitch package EVERY SINGLE ROBBERY. Bad crims make good cops go bad and fed up and bad cops make good crims get fed up and go bad. It's a cycle that we as a community can come together to break. However, there needs to be RP value that makes sense. Sitting there and ambushing cops to get away sure, but once you down that initial wave you should not want to get caught and find ways to hide and/or get away. I feel this is the biggest disconnect we have right now and people are thinking we just horde scenes. This isn't the case unless y'all stay in the area, we move in for our officers but if we're fired upon YES we will take people down if need be. Gunplay is fine if it makes sense. In regards to cheesy getaways, parking a motorcycle IN THE STORE or having 4 cars on a scene I agree could not be more cheese and honestly makes me not want to respond to robberies because that's not a fun chase. Thats a W mentality on the crims side of ok if I have 4 vehicles and 2 of them are crotch rockets we'll get away with it because we can take jumps and go down alleyways cops cant and find cheesy areas to screw cops over. When these cheesy things happen us as cops get tired of being punching bags and we begin to defend ourselves and escalate to shut it down more. Now when it's thought out and planned and you get out of your car and run to another area and get into another vehicle because you've planned this out prior.. sure perfectly fine and well played. However, doing this EVERY SINGLE TIME for even the smallest of robberies gets cheesy and unenjoyable. One thing when I'm playing my crim is why would my gang do this, does this make sense. If not we don't do it. For example, raids. Our gang doesn't give 2 shits about the drug locations so if they're about to get shut down we don't go because in RP it doesn't make sense nor do we want to be apart of a TDM. Note: In no way am I saying us as cops are saints and yes we have our issues. But, I don't feel our side is expressed enough because of the inevitable lash back that will come because of it. 

Furthermore, I'm a -1 for less class 3's because they bring RP value on the streets and help grow the economy amongst gangs and RP interactions. BUT the grind mentality has to come to a stop and people need to find the value in RP again.