2022-01-19 Raid feedback megathread

[Timr]

Pretty much what the title says. Specify if you are LEO, LSFD, or Civilian in your response

 

Reminder: BCSO response to the raid was sponsored by Sprunk

[Desolaris]

GG to crims / +1 to Swat - SWAT guy 
Rip billy

Edited January 20, 2022 by Desolaris
billy

[WTFjamie]

Civ - as usual the raid was fun as hell always enjoy a good raid. +1 for the use of the helis and the shooting out of them, knew that was something coming as i accidently came accross the training at zancudo one days lol, and also +1 you sneaky raiding the chop at the same time had some of us confused as hell at first but then we thought about it more. as per usual gave kisses to PD as i left love yall and appreciate the events as usual

[Nataree]

Seeing as the information leak ruined everything I really think there should be an enforced rule about these raids. Maybe government can choose gangs to participate that would make sense in roleplay, a.k.a gang turfs or control of drugs and have it actually stated in rules that if your gang is NOT chosen, to stay the hell away from it. Being overrun like that was not fun for anyone on the police side of things. Usually we only have a certain limit of LEOs for these things but having to call in reinforcements when we found out what we were up against just turned this in to a Call of Duty warzone match. There were more IC aspects that ruined this raid for me but they have since been addressed, however the amount of people that had to participate in that tonight ruined any tactical roleplay and or setting up roleplay for the criminal gangs that were initially chosen for this. Also gangs participating in these should represent their colours and not be dressing up as SWAT.

TLDR: There should be a rule and a choosing of gangs that may participate in a raid that makes sense in roleplay (or other aspects) and if the gangs are not chosen they should NOT participate. 

 

PS: I think gangs should be taking more control of specific substances & turfs, because it makes 0 sense for everyone to be buddy buddy 24/7. You guys treat this place more like SecondLife than a RP server.

Edited January 20, 2022 by Flora
PS Note

[Lepine]

Criminals dressed in all black tactical gear is confusing as fuck for both LEOs and other criminals.

[WTFjamie]

2 minutes ago, Lepine said:

Criminals dressed in all black tactical gear is confusing as fuck for both LEOs and other criminals.

yeah i 100% agree with this, i even stated to some people IC that doing that shit is just going to get you shot by both sides, always rep your colors when it comes to raids other wise no one knows who is who and you are more than likely going to get shot by other gangs

[ToeFuu]

DOC- Sad to hear it leaked and felt it was over very quickly. +100 for what flora said. 

I feel raids are always leaked at this point... 

[Morphiushell]

CIV - As it stands just now with drug locations being public and by that I mean any tom dick and harry can stumble across the locations and start to use them, I do not think it would be fair for a specific group or groups to be selected to participate in something like this as I don't think that in its self makes sense RP wise that others who use them etc have to sit back watch and hope those selected can defend it. Already a lot of time is invested in locating these spots normally 3 seperate spots and they get burned real quick with loose lips to new players etc.

I honestly feel that drugs need to be re-worked so they have their own seperate benefits then gangs are put in control of a specific drug. Maybe they have control over the lab but ingredients are still public this way it opens RP of having people obtain the ingredients etc and they can manufacture the drug at their locations. Once cops find out who is doing x y z drug they can set up a raid and that grp is tasked with getting their 10 man together to defend it. If they cant fill the 10 they can hire some outside help again opening up some more RP.

I agree its shit that something was leaked that it shouldnt have been however I really don't think it would have went any different. As soon as people heard that a raid was going on everyone would have made their way there it may have just turned out to be worse as I don't think there would have been as many cops there as we had tonight.

 

Edited January 20, 2022 by Morphiushell

[AlphaGFX]

Civ - For being involved in my the first raid of my time on the server it was an absolute blast, driving around, seeing that the cops have already left the first raid and are moving to the second and just being all in all confused was a lot of fun. All in all what I gained from it is that there was a lot of confusion on at least my part as to what exactly was going on because every one and there mom knew about the raid. I know the idea behind a raid is that one group will be notified that It is about to happen or when it will specifically happen but I feel as if in the end people cant really contain that information and it will get out eventually. I think it would be a lot better if certain drugs did one buff, for instance MDMA health boost, PCP run faster, LSD armor kind of like how it is now. Drug ingredients should be kept the same and available for everyone to collect and have there certain spots, but certain gangs get keys/access to certain drug labs. This gives room for RP where you can pay someone to collect drug ingredients for your gang in exchange for cash/ect. The gangs that have access to the drug labs are responsible for getting these drugs out on the streets and making sales while also trying to lay low and not get there spot raided. Hell it could even give RP too the gangs that the people who setup the Lab contact a gang leader and give them a mission to locate the lab or do something to locate it and make the drug scene 10x more RP based rather than "Hey look Johnny I found another door" and people aimlessly walking around the city with a crowbar in there hand. Once the gang finds there lab they have keys and can start mass producing there drug and try to lay low while flooding the streets with it. If the lab gets raided then that gang doesn't have a chance to produce that drug until it cycles through other gangs because the people who setup the Labs don't trust them with there product. During a raid the person who runs that lab are the only ones who can defend the lab and the Rule of 10 will apply there and cause 100x less confusion with whether or not other gangs can get involved or who is involved ect. Almost how the gun situation is treated in the city, It would also not ruin the Cop RP and investigations because they get bombarded by 50 different people in all different clothing and actually stand a chance. Maybe even have a storage in the Drug labs for gangs to store the drugs, armor, guns, and other stuff so if the cops do successfully raid it they get more than just the lab location. All in all that is just my opinion and my idea on the whole situation, I see from the cops perspective how frustrating having 50 different guys shooting you from the hills can be and think that this would be an amazing change to the raiding system and how crim vs cop raiding could be.

Basically what flora said but with my entire idea lmao, only real difference is that labs aren't open to public, certain gangs run the labs, those gangs are the only gang allowed to defend the lab, brings more RP to drug creation by maybe implementing a phone call to search for the lab. Agree 100% with choosing the gang that is allowed to defend the raid, I just think it should be chosen way before the raid has even happened which is why I think it would be great if certain gangs ran certain drugs so there is no confusion in the end.

[Beans]

I enjoyed it to an extent. The Rascals had a real good fight with the SWAT on the Northern hill which for the most part was a balanced and fair fight however after time we had more and more criminals from other gangs joining us on the highground and it became unfair for the cops.

I'm not sure which other gangs were initially chosen but this was the first time the Rascals have ever been chosen to defend a raid and our involvement was very much reduced by the sheer amount of other criminals that had simply learnt via word of mouth through the city.

Rascals ensured we didn't leak any info to anyone, not even our closest gang partnerships because we wanted it to be as fair as possible. I feel the only way to solve this is to Agree with Flora in which involvement of a raid should only come from a direct admin informant. If your gang hasn't been told, don't defend it. At least then once gangs get their chance to defend a location they get to do it properly rather than Ground War TDM.

Alternatively, rework locations/drugs and have them run by gangs in the city. If your spot gets found out and raided, YOU defend it. This goes for defending the location from criminals that have fat gobs as well. This will also add a dynamic of gang RP built around keeping their location secret in the first place.

 

[MJ.]

LSPD - It honestly sucked. PD wasn't prepared and it definitely wasn't fair to us. I am glad the crims had fun, as it was intended, but it just wasn't fun for PD. 

[Leeroy Denkins]

Civ - I was stuck on train. No clue what the raid was. 

[ROTN]

Civ- Was tryin to Run a Business also was stuck on train, but was Playing Yugioh

[Lane2G]

1 minute ago, MJ High said:

LSPD - It honestly sucked. PD wasn't prepared and it definitely wasn't fair to us. I am glad the crims had fun, as it was intended, but it just wasn't fun for PD. 

When the PD first arrived on scene we made sure to Match numbers. At safrole we had 6 People with only 3 class 3s, I think the main issue was the chop shop hit( Not saying it was wrong) but once everyone heard that it became time to make sure we dont loose TWO things in one day. Dont even get me started when swat took the hill thats when 3 other gangs pulled up. I enjoyed it until the Mosh Pit. - Crim

[Beans]

23 minutes ago, Lane2G said:

When the PD first arrived on scene we made sure to Match numbers. At safrole we had 6 People with only 3 class 3s, I think the main issue was the chop shop hit( Not saying it was wrong) but once everyone heard that it became time to make sure we dont loose TWO things in one day. Dont even get me started when swat took the hill thats when 3 other gangs pulled up. I enjoyed it until the Mosh Pit. - Crim

Agreed. Rascals held fire in Paleto even after hearing of the chop raid. But after hearing cops were heading to Safrole before Paleto we sent it straight there in an instant.

[Lane2G]

2 minutes ago, iRyaaannn said:

Agreed. Rascals held fire in Paleto even after hearing of the chop raid. But after hearing cops were heading to Safrole before Paleto we sent it straight there in an instant.

Also did not know this was a Rascal thing, at any point if you guys asked we would’ve gladly fucked off. I’m actually sorry about that. If it makes you feel better after we all went down and saw you guys on the hill the whole Compound cheered for you guys and Lux

[Griffin Thompson]

PD in this raid, have participated as a crim in the past.

I know its a lot but if you can take the time to read it and let me know what you think about the ideas and everything else thanks!

Overall experience, and comments about the Raid:

Overall from a PD side of things we lost but I still enjoyed it, though feel like things definitely need to be looked at and balance. It was a fair balanced fight at first as we pushed into the farm overtaking it, but when the second wave came in we were trapped. I will say yall using the technicals and military vehicles it was pretty sick! Still had fun and hope everyone else did, was cool either way and imo when there is a black market or high traffic location getting hit id expect everyone on the black market side of things to defend it. However for balance reasons that's not going to work ever.

Below are other sections with ideas and suggestions on balance, leaking, and other things. I know its a lot but if you can take the time to read it and let me know what you think about the ideas and everything else. Also these are all my opinions and you might disagree, I wont get offended if you want to start a discussion and talk about things, were adults and that's life.

Ideas for possible solutions and balance:

One possible Idea for a balance or solution is on these locations with multiple spots maybe have certain people at each spot and limit it. For example I dont know who all was there or "approved" to be. But lets say 305 defended the main spot with a max of 10 people, Rascals could defend one of the collection spots with a max of ten people, and then BD or Triads could have defended the third location. If any spot didn't have 10 people then members of the other gangs or spots that were full could over flow and fill in where needed.

With that being said obviously there would be more than 10 cops wanting to participate in the raid between GTF and Swat. PD would have the same rule apply with the Max of 10 ground units but be allowed the helicopter as air support aswell if decided upon. The 10 units could then execute the raid on one of the locations. If all units go down then the entire raid and event ends there with crims successfully defending. If all crims are shot down then cops wrap up what they are doing at the location before regrouping and heading to the next location.

Cops could "regroup" and the remaining officers standing could get medical and regear with additional armor and ammo to balance the fact that they will be going against a completely fresh group. Any officers downed at the first location would then be out of the raid and would not be able to participate in any of the other locations. The officers would then finish regrouping by picking up as many units necessary to bring them back to ten before going to the next location. (ex 6 out of 10 cops go down at first spot, 4 cops regear and get ready to hit next spot with 6 new officers joining the group bringing it back to the initial 10)

My other idea would be if we had enough units (at least 30) then all 3 locations could be hit at the same time. This would allow everyone to get to participate in the raid at the individual locations without it relying on the previous locations success or not. Downside of this would be crims have less of a chance to protect the production location as they would have one chance to defend it compared to essentially three if the cops would have to raid both collection locations.

Only other things outside of balancing I have to suggest is the following:

1. Don't dress like cops or black out unless you normally do, I feel like as gangs you should rep your colors whenever you do anything unless your laying low cause your wanted just my opinion. 
2. Don't pocket wipe, kidnap, or rob cops after everyone is shot down. The goal of it is to defend the location not benefit from it and profit off of the situation. Cars is one thing as vehicle could be damaged 
3. Don't do scummy stuff or be a rat lol, think about the other sides enjoyment of the situation
4. Remember that this is RP and the event is done to facilitate RP compared to just shutting things down with no raid. Try to think about why you and your members are getting involved or defending the locations. Is it your main source of income, is a member of your crew addicted to it so your trying to keep it open to keep them sane? Don't go into these thinking lets do it cause well get to have a big shootout that's fun! 

Leaking raids and other "events":
When it comes to people leaking raids, stop. Very simple don't do it, PD put a lot of work into these events behind the scenes. Whether its scoping out locations hour after hour for warrants and evidence, planning the raid tactically and organizing units spreading across multiple certifications, and actually executing it. Tons of work goes into making it enjoyable for everyone and when too many people show up it turns into TDM and all tactics and plans are basically thrown out the window along with balance.

Possible Solution for Leaking raids and other "events":
Only solution for stopping leaks that I see is enforcing heavier punishments on people who show up outside of who is selected. It should be known before any event that if you weren't selected then you should not be getting involved. Waiting for people to show up and giving them warnings or telling them to leave will most likely be too late for it to stop from effecting the raid.

Obviously staff currently choses who they think the information should be leaked to and I feel this is the best way to select the people involved and control the number of people involved. While in a perfect world the people asked would be people who either hang out in the area or use the drug either personally or for income it wont always work out that way. That being the case if your gang doesn't rely on whatever it is that's being raided, take it upon yourself to decline if you feel necessary to allow another group more involved to get the chance to defend it. If your group isn't chose just remember there is always another raid, and another chance to get to defend one.

The people who are selected for raids I think should be told in character someway or somehow. It may already be dones this way but im not sure, if not though staff could either have a known corrupt cop leak it to the selected groups, or make a character to have interact with the groups who are chosen, could also send something in the mail that would tell people about it.

Conclusion:
I don't really have anything else to add, I'm sure I have missed or forgotten things as this has been deleted 2 cause I refreshed on accident :/. If I repeated or said anything that others have, apologies but they probably said something that was great and an awesome idea lol. Please give feedback on the ideas or comments or whatever and react to the post too, thanks for reading my long response but appreciate it! Have a fantastic day, night, or life whatever time you read this at!

[vDrop]

@Civilians 
LEO's don't blame you at all for the L, for the story behind it, which many are not aware of, Leo's knew it was going to be absolutely nutty. We did what we could do. Instead of cancelling, we proceeded, A lot of effort was put in from the Civilian side to defend. 

Feedback from a Leo Stand point. 

Gangs that are dressing up like cops, full tactical geared out, no no.   The vehicles, 100% are needed so respect on that, I thought that was kinda neat because you could use it for cover, bringing your standard sports car would not be ideal, haha.  If I had to say ANYTHING negative, if you gang up, Rep up. Display your colors loud and proud. Wear the standard gang gang clothing. The drive-by shootings are incredibly cheesy.  Other than that, LEO side, we could have done better. Period. I myself made a few mistakes 




 

[Cristoforo Marcone]

crim- Heard through the grapevine what was happening decided to abstain.

I honestly wish there were a better way than choosing select few gangs but i understand too many people on one side or too many people in general can make it rough and not fun for the other side. These raids don't happen often and i can't really blame people for wanting to be apart of it. If there were a way to do more raid type events where people would feel like they might actually get a chance to be apart of a raid type event it could help but at the same time that would require both sides to play ball.

To me its one of the fun parts of being a criminal trying to find the spots so you can sell your favorite drug. I feel like gangs are already given enough.  Gatekeeping drugs in a way that only gangs have access to a lab will ruin part of what has made badlands badlands. We would be losing a major part of the charm that people enjoy about badlands.

If it does happen where gangs control drug labs something will have to be done to fill that gap (an example: house robberies) which would put even more strain on the police force. there is a balancing act of keeping enough activities from behind closed doors in order for people to have fun, something to do and keeping the strain off the police force so there is enough police RP to go around.

Badlands is bigger than ever and growing, these are growing pains. I hope we can find a way to work together and get the issues addressed from both sides in a way that keeps badlands fun without sacrificing what makes this community & server unique.

[Lane2G]

10 minutes ago, vDrop said:

@Civilians 
LEO's don't blame you at all for the L, for the story behind it, which many are not aware of, Leo's knew it was going to be absolutely nutty. We did what we could do. Instead of cancelling, we proceeded, A lot of effort was put in from the Civilian side to defend. 

Feedback from a Leo Stand point. 

Gangs that are dressing up like cops, full tactical geared out, no no.   The vehicles, 100% are needed so respect on that, I thought that was kinda neat because you could use it for cover, bringing your standard sports car would not be ideal, haha.  If I had to say ANYTHING negative, if you gang up, Rep up. Display your colors loud and proud. Wear the standard gang gang clothing. The drive-by shootings are incredibly cheesy.  Other than that, LEO side, we could have done better. Period. I myself made a few mistakes 




 

THANK YOU I fought long and hard to move those vans up there against that brutal vinewood hill

[Griffin Thompson]

18 minutes ago, vDrop said:

@Civilians 
LEO's don't blame you at all for the L, for the story behind it, which many are not aware of, Leo's knew it was going to be absolutely nutty. We did what we could do. Instead of cancelling, we proceeded, A lot of effort was put in from the Civilian side to defend. 

Feedback from a Leo Stand point. 

Gangs that are dressing up like cops, full tactical geared out, no no.   The vehicles, 100% are needed so respect on that, I thought that was kinda neat because you could use it for cover, bringing your standard sports car would not be ideal, haha.  If I had to say ANYTHING negative, if you gang up, Rep up. Display your colors loud and proud. Wear the standard gang gang clothing. The drive-by shootings are incredibly cheesy.  Other than that, LEO side, we could have done better. Period. I myself made a few mistakes 




 

eah I dont think crims even realize how many cops we brought and we still didnt succeed. On top of guns gear and shooting from helicopters along with getting the info from them we still were outnumbered and outgunned. Was still a good fight and effort like I said, we took out the first group and gained control of the location. But when the fresh reinforcements came, we were already hurting and had units taken out so it was like fighting a second battle that was harder to win.

[Morphiushell]

To a certain extent the cops went right into what was planned. Cops push in on the grp at the spot whilst the cavalry came in from the back. From the crim side there was a LOT and i mean a lot of calls back and forth updating what was going on etc and timing the right time to push in 

 

[Beans]

18 minutes ago, Morphiushell said:

To a certain extent the cops went right into what was planned. Cops push in on the grp at the spot whilst the cavalry came in from the back. From the crim side there was a LOT and i mean a lot of calls back and forth updating what was going on etc and timing the right time to push in 

 

Can confirm, phone was blowing up for the entire 2 hours pre-raid 

[Griffin Thompson]

36 minutes ago, iRyaaannn said:

Can confirm, phone was blowing up for the entire 2 hours pre-raid 

No issues with this, but I think this had been brought up about not being allowed. I think you aren't supposed to be speaking to anybody during the situation besides the 10 in your group.  Just bringing it up because its another thing that needs to be clarified or thought about when balancing is discussed. Pre raid I don't think is an issues but during raid or calling out where the convoy is not sure.

Like I said earlier though and watching Ryans video, the rascals rolling up with the techis and military looking shit was sick and an of fuck situation from me lol.

[Morphiushell]

Thing is I do not think anywhere its noted noone is allowed they are aware that even if only one grp knew and didnt tell anyone when the raid started word would get around and people are going to go and try defend the spots they are open and used by a lot in the city