Bluetooth in RP

[Ringo]

6 minutes ago, Livia Cullins said:

"or I can be a drug gang affiliate and roll up on you and take you hostage or kill you and not even give you the chance" don't complain if the cops catch you and give you no chance at that point. That's what we call shitlords.

The problem is not when we get caught & charged with attempted manslaughter. The problem is the next day when we get caught for assault on a local and try to RP but the cop is upset about having been killed by us previously that he max fines us. No one here is going to expect you to reduce ticket price if you catch us after we killed 3 officers and fled in vehicles. We care when after that is dealt with we're treated as if that is what we're being charged with.

 

In other words: Kill the cops one time and you become tainted indefinitely with max fines for any crime.

Edited July 20, 2018 by Ringo

[Alexia Kade]

1 minute ago, Ringo said:

The problem is not when we get caught & charged with attempted manslaughter. The problem is the next day when we get caught for assault on a local and try to RP but the cop is upset about having been killed by us previously that he max fines us. No one here is going to expect you to reduce ticket price if you catch us after we killed 3 officers and fled in vehicles. We care when after that is dealt with we're treated as if that is what we're being charged with.

If you're talking about a situation I personally got involved lately, same group of individuals always pulling guns when being caught, I am a police officer, not a goldfish, I can remember that the last times I handled this particular suspect, I was being hold at gunpoint; I will take even more precautions dealing with you, even if it was 2 days ago.

About that officer, this is a problem then and you should report it. Officers should not hold grudges, only be aware of the person if dealt with recently, as I just said.

[Shufflin]

4 minutes ago, Livia Cullins said:

"File up an IA report if you're unhappy" is what we have to say to people complaining in our faces. We do our job at the best we think, if YOU think we were wrong, its YOUR job to go to a higher up. Arguing with you in game won't lead nowhere but irritation. If the police officer did something wrong, they will be talked to. You can ask for the higher rank on duty, file a report, message SGT+, talk to admins, there's a lot of solutions as I said on another post. You can even DM the police officer and try to see their side of the story, too.

"It's a ploy to buy himself/herself time to let an admin respond to a situation that is in most cases so minor that it shouldn't have to be dealt with by him to begin with." If it was so minor, I don't think you would post about it. 

"By the time you've come around to getting a response and the situation is being dealt with by a higher-up the moment of confrontation has long passed." higher ups are people too - surprisely - they will come to you as soon as they can.

"or I can be a drug gang affiliate and roll up on you and take you hostage or kill you and not even give you the chance" don't complain if the cops catch you and give you no chance at that point. That's what we call shitlords.

There's no way you're reading what I'm posting.

" If it was so minor, I don't think you would post about it. "  -  12 Mph over the speed limit and my options are to either deal with the cop that just threw a $5000 fine in my face and hope for his mercy, or RP as a drug affiliate would and get out of the situation through being hostile.  By making the decision to gun and run I bypass the whole "If you're unhappy with my generosity go talk to someone that will force me to be generous" spiel. You can call me a shitlord for killing you, I don't care. I was within the rules, and if you have a problem you can file a report as well.

 

"higher ups are people too - surprisely - they will come to you as soon as they can."  - Don't give me that BS where I'm acting like an Admin isn't a busy person. That much is obvious, I'm not sitting here expecting a quick response, I'm saying the whole system by it's nature is a long process. I know they can't help that, so don't passive-aggressively pin me as some sort of unsympathetic demand-e. 

 

"don't complain if the cops catch you and give you no chance at that point. That's what we call shitlords." - No one's complaining that we got caught be the cops. We're upset with how the cops treat people for minor offenses before ever reaching to the point of a gunfight or meth bust.

 

[Shufflin]

56 minutes ago, Livia Cullins said:

If you can't accept to be caught, don't do it. As simple as that. Do you think cops in real life would be like "yeah you killed 3 of my officers but you're nice, here's 50% off your ticket!"? I'm personally really really flexible, but I have procedures to follow and if you give me attitude, I won't cooperate.

Just think about it, if your character had only ONE life, no chances of reanimation by an EMS, if your character was you. Would you really kill a cop because he fined you? Would you really do what you're doing with your character?

In response to this edit, yes I understand the point you're making, but police officers are just as easily at fault for what you're accusing me of.

 

Multiple times we've been in a hostage situation where the cops ignore the fact one of their fellow officers has a gun to their head, knowing they can take a .44 mag to the brain and be walking around as if nothing happened with 15 minutes. Leading them not to care for the hostages life at all and take lethal shots at us. A couple of them we've actually killed the officer or the hostage and then fled leaving them with nothing but a dead hostage.

 

Fix it on both sides and maybe you won't get an "outrageous situation that no one would ever try to do in IRL."

[Alexia Kade]

1 minute ago, Shufflin said:

In response to this edit, yes I understand the point you're making, but police officers are just as easily at fault for what you're accusing me of.

 

Multiple times we've been in a hostage situation where the cops ignore the fact one of their fellow officers has a gun to their head, knowing they can take a .44 mag to the brain and be walking around as if nothing happened with 15 minutes. Leading them not to care for the hostages life at all and take lethal shots at us. A couple of them we've actually killed the officer or the hostage and then fled leaving them with nothing but a dead hostage.

 

Fix it on both sides and maybe you won't get an "outrageous situation that no one would ever try to do in IRL."

Alright this will be my last message.
 

But then again, you should report, as the officer did not value the hostage life, police or not.

"Value of Life

• A reasonable attempt should be made to preserve your life in any situation. This includes following reasonable demands from a hostile player when there is an indefensible threat to your life. However, if the opportunity presents itself, all players are allowed to defend themselves from hostiles. Ultimately, the aggressor is responsible for their own safety should a target choose to defend themselves."

[Shufflin]

Just now, Livia Cullins said:

Alright this will be my last message.
 

But then again, you should report, as the officer did not value the hostage life, police or not.

"Value of Life

• A reasonable attempt should be made to preserve your life in any situation. This includes following reasonable demands from a hostile player when there is an indefensible threat to your life. However, if the opportunity presents itself, all players are allowed to defend themselves from hostiles. Ultimately, the aggressor is responsible for their own safety should a target choose to defend themselves."

We did report the officer involved and nothing happened. We have read the rules.

[Storrent]

11 minutes ago, Shufflin said:

We did report the officer involved and nothing happened. We have read the rules.

Sorry to jump back in, but you won't be told of what happened post-IA, that's settled internally. The officer was probably told off, put on probation, or something of the like. IA reports don't exist to get people fired/demoted.

[Shufflin]

31 minutes ago, Storrent said:

Sorry to jump back in, but you won't be told of what happened post-IA, that's settled internally. The officer was probably told off, put on probation, or something of the like. IA reports don't exist to get people fired/demoted.

I understand. No compensation was never dealt out to us though. On our end we see no response from the report.

Because of that we see frailty in making one in general now and avoid a confrontation at the mercy of police because of it. Other reasons too of course, but that's just one of a few.

[Alexia Kade]

3 minutes ago, Shufflin said:

I understand. No compensation was never dealt out to us though. On our end we see no response from the report.

Because of that we see frailty in making one in general now and avoid a confrontation at the mercy of police because of it. Other reasons too of course, but that's just one of a few.

There is no compensation with reports. 

[Shufflin]

4 minutes ago, Livia Cullins said:

There is no compensation with reports. 

So logically for us then, the best outcome would be to avoid a situation in which we would have to report someone.

[Alexia Kade]

2 minutes ago, Shufflin said:

So logically for us then, the best outcome would be to avoid a situation in which we would have to report someone.

Or just to avoid getting in situations where you get arrested if you don't wanna deal with charges. Or ask for a lawyer when accused of a felony charge.

Edited July 20, 2018 by Livia Cullins

[Storrent]

1 minute ago, Shufflin said:

So logically for us then, the best outcome would be to avoid a situation in which we would have to report someone.

Just because it doesn't directly benefit you, doesn't mean you should let these problems go unreported, and possibly have other people fall into the same situation that could have been avoided if reported.

[Shufflin]

2 minutes ago, Livia Cullins said:

Or just to avoid getting in situations where you get arrested if you don't wanna deal with charges. Or ask for a lawyer when accused of a felony charge.

 

Oh right, guess I'll just go be a tow truck driver and scuba dive for the rest of my days. In light of the lawyer request I've been denied every time I've requested one. I even have a friend that's in law school that would love to be put in that situation, but I've never been granted one.

[Shufflin]

4 minutes ago, Storrent said:

Just because it doesn't directly benefit you, doesn't mean you should let these problems go unreported, and possibly have other people fall into the same situation that could have been avoided if reported.

 

We report them and see no response. With no response to us it feels useless. If reports are actually doing something and we're just not in on the outcome, then we've done our part times over.

[Alexia Kade]

5 minutes ago, Shufflin said:

 

Oh right, guess I'll just go be a tow truck driver and scuba dive for the rest of my days. In light of the lawyer request I've been denied every time I've requested one. I even have a friend that's in law school that would love to be put in that situation, but I've never been granted one.

Its at the discretion of the officer to accept or deny it. 

[Shufflin]

Just now, Livia Cullins said:

Its at the discretion of the officer to accept or deny it. 

 

Then your officers must be truly after RP then right, if it's opinionated? Oh wait they avoid it every chance they've gotten...

 

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm........

[Shufflin]

6 minutes ago, Storrent said:

Here is a list of some of the messages posted by the higherups in the police discord channel that pertain to this discussion. https://imgur.com/a/gS3xUXV Officers not doing this are not doing their job correctly.

 

You got a lot of officers not doing their job correctly then. It's always 2-4 officers on scene and not once has one stepped forward and been like "Hey maybe we should give him a lawyer? It might be interesting?"

 

I guess I'll just started tunneling IA's at every little thing then since officers can't come to the realization with their own brains. What a fantastic experience for everyone involved.

[r3v0Lt55]

Thought this was a blue tooth thread?

[Danielle Wright]

6 minutes ago, Shufflin said:

 

You got a lot of officers not doing their job correctly then. It's always 2-4 officers on scene and not once has one stepped forward and been like "Hey maybe we should give him a lawyer? It might be interesting?"

 

I guess I'll just started tunneling IA's at every little thing then since officers can't come to the realization with their own brains. What a fantastic experience for everyone involved.

Last time I was granted a lawyer, it irritated the cops I believe. Then I got a max fine when they got tired of dealing with the lawyer. Plus the 30+ minutes in jail and another 20 in prison.

[ValkyrieBlu]

Something to consider: As a light RP server, it is sometimes hard to tell when someone is IC angry at a cop and OOC angry at all cops in general, in the game as well as have an issue with real uniformed officers. Given the day and age we live in and the news, its not hard to see why some people would have a problem with cops in general. Every time I RP with someone being hostile towards me I always try to guess if its role play or not and its hard to tell sometimes, and when it feels like a personal attack rather than RP its hard to grant leniency.

As a new cop, I know I've made mistakes and thrown the book too hard and for that I apologize, but again, please file an IA report if you felt that cops made a mistake. Its sort of the same as bug reports. If no one reports anything, how can the people in charge find the root of the problem and fix the situation? IA's can start good discussion and promote better training. 

[Ringo]

39 minutes ago, Livia Cullins said:

Or just to avoid getting in situations where you get arrested if you don't wanna deal with charges. Or ask for a lawyer when accused of a felony charge.

In response to us saying logically our best option is to fight our way out of fines you've told us to

1. Not have interaction with police ever (don't do illegal jobs)

2. Ask for a lawyer (which can be declined, always is & Doesn't guarantee lower fines)

3. Kill the cops and escape

Option 3 is the best option

So, again, Logically our best option is  to shoot our way out

[Jester]

• A Law Enforcement Officer attempting to pull a vehicle over by using Lights and Sirens is not grounds for hostile initiation.  The use of advanced methods to stop or disable a vehicle by a Law Enforcement Officer is considered hostile initiation and the fleeing suspect(s) may react with lethal force if their vehicle is stopped or disabled.

[Shufflin]

1 minute ago, Jester said:

• A Law Enforcement Officer attempting to pull a vehicle over by using Lights and Sirens is not grounds for hostile initiation.  The use of advanced methods to stop or disable a vehicle by a Law Enforcement Officer is considered hostile initiation and the fleeing suspect(s) may react with lethal force if their vehicle is stopped or disabled.

Well yeah we don't hop out of the car and start shooting immediately. We tell them to put their hands up and comply, usually telling them to get in the back of the car.

[Alexia Kade]

9 minutes ago, Ringo said:

In response to us saying logically our best option is to fight our way out of fines you've told us to

1. Not have interaction with police ever (don't do illegal jobs)

2. Ask for a lawyer (which can be declined, always is & Doesn't guarantee lower fines)

3. Kill the cops and escape

Option 3 is the best option

So, again, Logically our best option is  to shoot our way out

 

1- Be smarter doing illegal jobs (personally did meth for weeks and only got busted once.
2- Yes, try requesting, if its denied, then its denied. Thats how it is and you can't be mad for it.

3- Don't kill cops please, I mean do it if thats how your character is, but accept the consequences. You're removing a defenser of the law from the streets when they are down, waiting for a medical expert to come, a lot of things can happens and maybe you condamned somebody else in the city asking for cops and this one couldn't answer because you were mad.

THEN AGAIN, do what you want, but accept the consequences. And report if anything was wrong.

Edit was for typos.

Edited July 20, 2018 by Livia Cullins

[Ringo]

4 minutes ago, ValkyrieBlu said:

Something to consider: As a light RP server, it is sometimes hard to tell when someone is IC angry at a cop and OOC angry at all cops in general, in the game as well as have an issue with real uniformed officers. Given the day and age we live in and the news, its not hard to see why some people would have a problem with cops in general. Every time I RP with someone being hostile towards me I always try to guess if its role play or not and its hard to tell sometimes, and when it feels like a personal attack rather than RP its hard to grant leniency.

As a new cop, I know I've made mistakes and thrown the book too hard and for that I apologize, but again, please file an IA report if you felt that cops made a mistake. Its sort of the same as bug reports. If no one reports anything, how can the people in charge find the root of the problem and fix the situation? IA's can start good discussion and promote better training. 

Does it matter if someone is OOC angry at cops? Why should that affect your IC processing. I don't think it should. 

 

1 minute ago, Livia Cullins said:

1- Be smarter doing illegal jobs (personally did meth for weeks and only got busted once)
2- Yes, try requesting, if its denied, then its denied. Thats how it is and you can't be mad for it.

3- Don't kill cops please, I mean do it if thats how your character is, but accept the consequences. You're removing a defenser of the law when their are down, waiting for a medical expert to come, a lot of things can happens and maybe you condamned somebody else in the city asking for cops and this one couldn't answer because you were mad.

THEN AGAIN, do what you want, but accept the consequences. And report if anything was wrong.

1. You can't outsmart illegal informant (Personally did meth for weeks and have only had my RV's contents seized once)

2. Why bother?

3. My character kills cops -- cops OOC don't like that -- get treated poorly for every crime involving my character indefinitely