Cement factory

[Flori]

Since we are now able to sell cement at You Tool, can we please make it that is not illegal to gather cement? It makes no sense that if you are RPing that you work there, (just like in any other gathering locations) if Police sees you there they just catch you "stealing". People don't even know this is an activity considered theft. (if i read the civilians rights document, I couldn't find this anywhere)

[TiLLeR]

There are already numerous legal jobs in Los Santos.  Cement is one of the key ingredients in making Cocaine and keeping gathering of the cement at the location adds risk to a job which makes a significant amount of money.  Being in possession of cement is not illegal so if you succeed in gathering the materials you are free to roam around and do what you want with it.   I'll update the civilian rights document to reflect this better (after our SOP update yesterday there are a few sections which need minor updates so the timing is good).

[Tom Kamperman]

So does that mean collecting the metals from the mine is going to be illegal when the gun running comes.

[Thorgs]

1 hour ago, Tom Kamperman said:

So does that mean collecting the metals from the mine is going to be illegal when the gun running comes.

Depends if it's for illegal guns which I thought Speed said it was gonna be like virtual guns not something you can sell to other players but I'm sure he will say one way or the other once it gets closer to being implemented.

[___]

Maybe we could add another cement factory that you can "work at"? This would open the opportunity to collect legal cement that can only be sold at youtool & cannot be used in the production of cocaine. If you want to obtain the fine cement used for cocaine processing then you have to illegally obtain it by stealing from the location that it's currently at. This will separate those that are just trying to make a quick buck from the concrete, & those trying to make cocaine. 

[TiLLeR]

Legal things to do:  Peaches, Wine, Gold, Truck Driving, Air Drops, Diving, Tow Truck, Repair, Delivery, Taxi Driver, Mining

Illegal:  Weed, Coke, Meth

We can't make everything a legal job.  In addition Speed and Serpico have been trying hard to get beyond the simple 'gather' 'sell' jobs to provide more interaction.  Making Cement a legal job or thing to do just doesn't help. And if you make one place legal to gather cement then everyone will go to that for the Coke gathering.

[keebler_mfn_elf]

From what I see about this topic is that you can not collect Cement, from the factory because its use to make Cocaine, even though you can sell Cement to U-tool. I was found collecting some and the office that found me said that only 13 people are allowed to do so. I find this more meda gating then anything and takes away a lot for RP. I say this because anyone can for and pick grapes/peaches and its not illegal but they are going on someones land and just taking these items. As for mining you do not have to get a claim to go collect any of the metals.
I point this out because there is a lot of lack in "RP" in all these areas. the LSPD has it as part of their patrol to check on all the Drug area. And if all these area were so known then drug runners would not use them, again there is no "RP" when it comes to these areas; if you are seen there the LSPD will search you and most likely you will get a fine or jail time. (just for being in the area). 

I really like the Badlands servers but I see these as an area where the LSPD could do some RP and try to use it as a way to "investigate" where drug runners are getting their good from; not just know where they get their materials from to make their product.

I also find that where Weed is grown is a very unlikely area that someone would grow at, it is next to a road that always has traffic on it. It would only be like that if it was legal to grow.

Edited November 23, 2018 by keebler_mfn_elf
did not finish

[Thorgs]

2 hours ago, keebler_mfn_elf said:

I was found collecting some and the office that found me said that only 13 people are allowed to do so

I assume you meant Officer and I don't know that an officer would tell you 13 people are Allowed to do so when they know its illegal to collect if caught. And officers do RP when caught in illegal areas if they don't you should be bringing it to our attention.

2 hours ago, keebler_mfn_elf said:

I also find that where Weed is grown is a very unlikely area that someone would grow

Well, there are plenty of areas where you can plant that's not high traffic area and if you feel there is a better place why not suggest it. 

You have to understand this is a game Places to do Illegal are limited to the map that's at hand so you just have to accept what is there on hand not everything is ideal like in the real world so the Dev's do what they can.

[keebler_mfn_elf]

18 minutes ago, Thorgs said:

I assume you meant Officer and I don't know that an officer would tell you 13 people are Allowed to do so when they know its illegal to collect if caught. And officers do RP when caught in illegal areas if they don't you should be bringing it to our attention.

Well, there are plenty of areas where you can plant that's not high traffic area and if you feel there is a better place why not suggest it. 

You have to understand this is a game Places to do Illegal are limited to the map that's at hand so you just have to accept what is there on hand not everything is ideal like in the real world so the Dev's do what they can.

MY main point was that all the areas that you can do illegal the has been made into areas that the LSPD dont have to do any true RP to know about, they do checks (constantly) on the areas and they are listed in the civilian rights as areas that you will be detained and searched if found there. As I said and I will refer to a more realistic reasoning; drug dealers/runners if their areas of operation are found they would move somewhere else so that the cops do not know where they are. In are situation we cant just move the locations every reset, but the LSPD RPers should have to investigate to locate the areas even having known where they are. Not just set them as an area where again where in real life would be against are 4th amendment right would be broken (The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.)

I know that there are limits that you can do as far as RP, but some things I have seen on server and from watching some of the streamers that play on the servers; these area have negated the need to do any RP, to stop players from doing illegal RP. 

[Flori]

I think we are aware of all the legal jobs there are, this post is not about grinding a couple hundred dollars. Many people do the grinding game yes, that's human nature, but normally there are stories behind every worker and interactions, specially after businesses were released. (Of course I know that 99% of people collecting cement are gonna use it for cocaine)
The point is, even with all the explanations, that from a RP point of view this makes no sense to me. The factory being private property and PD saying 9outta10 times you need to be "on a list" its just not good RP at all. But what can they say? This was a rule set from staff and they are bound to it, i guess my request is also to review how we tie the process of performing illegal activities to "laws".
Why patrol this area cause it's an item required to do cocaine? Why not go catch them making it or selling it? I understand the balance of a well paid job, catching them in such an early stage of the whole process where cocaine is soooo far away from that activity/item allows for more frustration in interactions with PD imo. Same will happen with illegal weapons and metals? It's no big deal, just throwing this out there for maybe internal discussion.

Edited November 24, 2018 by Flori

[Thorgs]

21 minutes ago, Flori said:

The point is, even with all the explanations, that from a RP point of view this makes no sense to me. The factory being private property

Not sure how it makes no sense? Your right its private property so your trespassing and taking cement is theft so in that aspect it makes perfect sense. Also, you state why patrol cause its a required item so should the same be said about collecting ephedrine or buying marijuana seeds? it's in the early process too and you mention there has to be a balance and having to collect required items makes the balance. Also posted above there are 10 legal jobs to do around the city.

12 hours ago, keebler_mfn_elf said:

MY main point was that all the areas that you can do illegal the has been made into areas that the LSPD dont have to do any true RP to know about, they do checks (constantly) on the areas and they are listed in the civilian rights as areas that you will be detained and searched if found there. As I said and I will refer to a more realistic reasoning; drug dealers/runners if their areas of operation are found they would move somewhere else so that the cops do not know where they are. In are situation we cant just move the locations every reset, but the LSPD RPers should have to investigate to locate the areas even having known where they are. Not just set them as an area where again where in real life would be against are 4th amendment right would be broken (The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.)

I know that there are limits that you can do as far as RP, but some things I have seen on server and from watching some of the streamers that play on the servers; these area have negated the need to do any RP, to stop players from doing illegal RP

 

Dude its a game! it's not real life but if you want to stress that in real life Police get tips and know where problem areas are in their city.. It's unfortunate that maybe your RP if found in one of these areas you didn't give a good RP story as to why you were there and maybe the police won't search or detain you but rather ask you to leave the area? Every situation is different and every officer do it differently so really it all begins with you and your RP.

[Flori]

Im done, clearly my english is not good enough to explain myself correctly. No need to keep replying to my OP thanks.

[keebler_mfn_elf]

47 minutes ago, Thorgs said:

Dude its a game! it's not real life but if you want to stress that in real life Police get tips and know where problem areas are in their city.. It's unfortunate that maybe your RP if found in one of these areas you didn't give a good RP story as to why you were there and maybe the police won't search or detain you but rather ask you to leave the area? Every situation is different and every officer do it differently so really it all begins with you and your RP.

yes RP begins whit me; but, like i have said having the LSPD already know where all the illegal things happen, and having laws that prohibit you from going to that area. plus having the LSPD patrol them areas, negates the point of even having them. All I am saying that this kills doing RP, knowing that the cops dont have to do any real work to catch players in the process of getting the materials, or processing them into product.

Yes there are 10 legal jobs that you can do, but the all have a base wage of 200 from the job center. you make that being unemployed. Unless you are LSPD or an EMT; you make a lot more depending on rank.

Most of what I have stated here, is also based off of what I see from LDSP streamer; and I can point out  alot of Laws (civilian vs LSPD/EMT) that I feel are bogus. But I just see that illegal money making is getting a hard shaft in the realm of RPing.

SO you know, I do enjoy playing on these servers hence why I have donated to help keep them active. 

[Merr Khan]

1st off, I don't get why criminals don't want cops around? I have had the privilege, for a long time, to see when cops are on duty. I can assure you I don't do crime when they are not on, I go on-duty. There is no point IMO to do crime if the risk of getting caught is not there. The thrill of getting away, or talking your way out of murder, is 100% my reason for doing it in RP.

If the pay-out for drugs were based on how many cops were on duty, meaning 0 cops on - you get 25%, 6 cops on - you get 105%. (or some sort of scaling math)

Not a single player would complain about cops being around, or only sell when they think there are no cops on. In fact they would complain about there not being cops around.   

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just the other day, myself and another officer rolled up to cement and found a guy there. I wont tell you what he did, but his RP was at such a high level that it required us (as self respecting roll players) to let him carry on as he was doing. This is very rare. Since cement opened this has happened once, that is was involved in ..... Not that I don't look for good RP, its just that rare to find here.

Not every cop will do this, it is based on that cops experience and RP. Rewarding RP is a goal of the PD but since RP is subjective you may not get the same treatment from one cop to another. 

If you do a good enough job, (Not just say what your friend said, once upon a time, to get away).

If you truly create a unique and dynamic role, with back story, character development, and are 100% conviction to the roll you are attempting to play. (not just power gaming money)

Then the cops should give you a break and maybe allow the RP to continue, or carry on, or maybe send you packing with out charges. It is that cops discretion. 

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

If you do all of this, and you feel like you were just robo-cop'd through the process, then please file an IA.  

 

 

Edited November 24, 2018 by Merr Khan