Merr Khan Posted November 25, 2017 Report Share Posted November 25, 2017 This post is to start a topic on Lawyer's. This having a friend stop AT A CRIME SCENE saying "I'm a lawyer" (is 1: META as fuck) dressed like a street bum with a mask on their face, and pockets full of meth needs to stop. I have never once seen or heard of a lawyer showing up on the side of a road during an investigation. They don't come till the suspect makes their 1 phone call from PD station, and normally the next day. IMO Lawyer's should be reserved for the most severe criminals. Not every time someone runs over a cat. (so only for Felonies with mandatory time) A lawyer can not be a criminal with a record longer then my you know what..... They should be dressed the part, have the right car, and have a full understanding of the law. A Lawyer (public defender) should be a job, with good pay, and so it shows on their ID as "Lawyer" when they submit to a search upon entering PD station. (maybe white listed with a Bar test some day) It should be added to the city job list and cell phone call list. This way anybody looking at felony charges has the right to a lawyer, not just those who have friends willing to cause mayhem.  Once a suspect Lawyers up there should be no further contact between cops and suspect, other than to send to prison, fine, or release. The police inform the lawyer of the charges and any evidence, the lawyer talks to client to come up with a strategy, and then the lawyer talks to police to make a deal. I would really like to see something like this implemented.  3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiLLeR Posted November 25, 2017 Report Share Posted November 25, 2017 Personally I don't mind the random person showing up to try to defend a friend as a lawyer. Sometimes I let them, sometimes I don't. If there is RP value in it then why not? When I usually send them packing is when there is a large group. If you think that they are up to something shady you can tell them that if they want to represent that they will need to be restrained and searched before allowing them to see their client. That allows you some level of protection while putting an element of risk on them so they cannot be there to simply waste your time. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speed Posted November 25, 2017 Report Share Posted November 25, 2017 We don't have a "right to an attorney" here, so it's really up to the discretion of the officer to either allow it or not. Obviously we want you to choose whatever is going to lead to the best RP, but if someone is claiming to be a lawyer for the sake of causing trouble, there's no reason you can't turn them away. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merr Khan Posted November 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2017 (edited) This is the way i have done it as a lawyer and allowed it as a cop. I inform them of appropriate appearance, were they should meet (upstairs in lobby of PD) and submit to a search, so far it has worked.  Edited November 25, 2017 by Merr Kahn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiLLeR Posted November 25, 2017 Report Share Posted November 25, 2017 The updated SOPs address part of this as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chain Posted November 25, 2017 Report Share Posted November 25, 2017 (edited) Written via Sneaky Version 1.0 1.5 of SOPs. Been there all alone. for a while. Processing Suspects - Section H Clause 4 A player may request to have a lawyer present for any charges in the Felony category. A lawyer can RP down a Felony ticket by a max of 50% (only applies to ticketable offenses) It is Officer discretion in whether they want to approve the request. The lawyer must be dressed professionally and meet at HQ to be searched. âTime servedâ in police custody does not apply when a player requests a lawyer to represent them.  Edited November 25, 2017 by Chain 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merr Khan Posted November 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2017 ^ this is something i have read and used many times, both as a cop and as a lawyer, but it only covers the Cop responsibilities, I"m talking about on the other side of things. Like a guideline (SOP) for lawyer's, letting them know that if they show up at a crime scene "magically" (cause the client is cuffed and cant use a phone, that's the Meta) that they will not be aloud to represent the suspect. Also letting them know they have to be dressed appropriately, and submit to a search, were anything illegal would be charged and they cant be a lawyer then.   Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chain Posted November 25, 2017 Report Share Posted November 25, 2017 Something that can be addressed in the public civilian documentation of laws/rights that is in the works. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itusan Posted December 6, 2017 Report Share Posted December 6, 2017 (edited) I think it would be an amazing option in the game to add a job as a Lawyer. Before being cuffed you get a prompt much like when you die for a medic, but in this case you can call a On-Duty Lawyer. This said lawyer would get a notification that "a Client" needs their representation at a scene of a crime. The cost would not be covered by the government as the lawyer would work as a private attorney. I can already hear people saying, "Well we can't wait for a lawyer for 10 mins at every call". I think to solve that, when a lawyer is called by the player it notifies the lawyer to go to the nearest police station. Since most people aren't real lawyers, maybe the cost could be 25-40k which is a decent chunk of change. This would allow the person to get a reduce sentence or a warning. I would also consider making a cool down time feature so this can't be abused by people who have a ton of money. The reward being a less sentence, yet the cost being pretty large. Just an idea, please give me your feedback on it? Thanks! Edited December 6, 2017 by Itusan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Thunderslap Posted December 11, 2017 Report Share Posted December 11, 2017 On 12/6/2017 at 3:25 PM, Itusan said: I think it would be an amazing option in the game to add a job as a Lawyer. Before being cuffed you get a prompt much like when you die for a medic, but in this case you can call a On-Duty Lawyer. This said lawyer would get a notification that "a Client" needs their representation at a scene of a crime. The cost would not be covered by the government as the lawyer would work as a private attorney. I can already hear people saying, "Well we can't wait for a lawyer for 10 mins at every call". I think to solve that, when a lawyer is called by the player it notifies the lawyer to go to the nearest police station. Since most people aren't real lawyers, maybe the cost could be 25-40k which is a decent chunk of change. This would allow the person to get a reduce sentence or a warning. I would also consider making a cool down time feature so this can't be abused by people who have a ton of money. The reward being a less sentence, yet the cost being pretty large. Just an idea, please give me your feedback on it? Thanks! I've seen this sort of thing in other communities. It works really well. The time limit is the only thing. That can be addressed through the server rules. It would be a great opportunity for RP. There should be rules in place ex. "Lawyer cannot have active warrants or extensive criminal record" This is not to say we couldn't have a Saul Goodman type, but Saul Goodman was good about not getting caught. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgs Posted December 11, 2017 Report Share Posted December 11, 2017 8 hours ago, Rex Thunderslap said: Before being cuffed That won't happen because the suspect isn't always cuffed depending on the situation. I can see maybe a prompt after your cuffed. 8 hours ago, Rex Thunderslap said: "Well we can't wait for a lawyer for 10 mins at every call". I think to solve that, when a lawyer is called by the player it notifies the lawyer to go to the nearest police station. Since most people aren't real lawyers, maybe the cost could be 25-40k which is a decent chunk of change. This would allow the person to get a reduce sentence or a warning Yes police can't wait around that long for one and 2 why would a person pay 25k + for a 3k fine and even at that doesn't guarantee any kind of reduced sentence! Every situation is different but not all crimes would get a break even if you have a lawyer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itusan Posted December 12, 2017 Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 (edited) 20 hours ago, Thorgs said: That won't happen because the suspect isn't always cuffed depending on the situation. I can see maybe a prompt after your cuffed. Yes police can't wait around that long for one and 2 why would a person pay 25k + for a 3k fine and even at that doesn't guarantee any kind of reduced sentence! Every situation is different but not all crimes would get a break even if you have a lawyer Your assuming all crimes would have the same jail time or fine. I was using those numbers as a example depending on the crime. The cost for the lawyer would be different. My idea would be much similar to how a cop invoices you when you pay a fine. Maybe you robbed a bank and got caught. 25k would be worth not having lost 20 mins of RP time, potentially losing my weapons, items, and vehicle if caught. In that example maybe it would be No jail time or a fine. For something smaller like speeding 60+ maybe the lawyer gets you a smaller fine, no lost license or lost items. This was just a base idea I wanted feedback on. Thank you to everyone who commented. Edited December 12, 2017 by Itusan Grammar corrections Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merr Khan Posted December 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 (edited) On 12/11/2017 at 8:06 AM, Thorgs said: That won't happen because the suspect isn't always cuffed depending on the situation. I can see maybe a prompt after your cuffed. Not all cuffed suspects get charged with a crime, but when they are jailed its a 99% sure thing they are getting charged with something. Many good points brought up here and my thoughts are this, Make lawyer a public defender job. You sign in at the job center with the right clothes and go to PD, when a suspect is JAILED they are prompted to "Call a Lawyer?". If a lawyer is there they will come down and start the RP with the cops and the suspect.. The Lawyer and suspect would have to RP a negotiation on pay amount (say 1-2 min time limit). There should be a pre-set list of invoices for a lawyer, (Say $200, $500, $1k, $2k, $5k......) !!!The amount of money payed to the lawyer has no effect on the police, charges or fines!!! If a deal is made the lawyer would submit an invoice to their new client and would handle the case from there. Now we get into what a lawyer can and can't do for their client in regards to lessening charges. While keeping the officers in compliance with their LEO SOP, (sorry if you don't have access to that). I think there needs to be a change to that. In general if the "lawyer" is going to become a real job they need to have more influence on the outcome of the criminal's sentencing. I.E. Arresting or charging Officers need more authority to negotiate with lawyers. There is nothing an LEO can do about reducing prison sentences, when the suspect can't pay any of the fines. But does have enough money for a lawyer. That's sad :(... However the whole concept of "Lawyer" is new on this server. It has always just been a buddy that shows up out of the blue, its hard to listen to a "lawyer" that just robbed a store 20 min ago. But a random person that may or may not know you acting as your public defender is ripe for RP. There would have to be a hard coded limit of how many lawyers can be "on duty" at a time. Say 3 since there are 3 cells and normally we don't have more suspects then that at 1 time.  Obviously there will be some competition for suspects to get a good lawyer, but if the monetary reward for a good lawyer is the same as for a bad one, and the charges get lowered the same amount regardless of lawyer's ability, And prison time can't be reduced only fines at this time, then there is really no incentive to try hard as a lawyer. And it will die off quickly. For those players who are looking for the next level of RP I think this opens the huge door. A well educated lawyer who is specialized in Los Santos laws would and should get payed more. The lawyer would also be able to get more charges dropped, or lower the fines, or lessen the prison time. Then say a bum in suit. This is my reasoning for different pay levels, and my reason for wanting more wiggle room for officers to work with the lawyer.  Ex. If i was a lawyer and you could only afford $200 i would represent you, but ill probably drool and swear and yell at officers. On the other hand if you payed me $5k i would represent the shit out of you, probable ending with a civil suit against the PD for some shit and get you walking out of there with $100k in your pocket. Edited December 22, 2017 by Merr Kahn 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEONDEAGLE Posted April 17, 2018 Report Share Posted April 17, 2018 On â11â/â25â/â2017 at 10:10 AM, TiLLeR said: The updated SOPs address part of this as well. I like to do Lawyer work form time to time and I am pretty good at it lol. Is there a way that we can get a civilian copy of the charges. Like a reference sheet? That way I could be better prepared. Also on the Lawyer fees, I think it's easier to keep track of your own customers via an Exel Docs. This is how I keep tabs on who owes me money for the lawyer fees. Just felt like I would ask that question and include a way to keep track of your money like if you had your own law firm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiLLeR Posted April 17, 2018 Report Share Posted April 17, 2018  There is no need to provide the full ticket book as those items change often. The officers will list out each charge and the associated penalties and you can use that to RP from. The Civ rights document will help you with your discussion as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEONDEAGLE Posted April 17, 2018 Report Share Posted April 17, 2018 6 hours ago, TiLLeR said:  There is no need to provide the full ticket book as those items change often. The officers will list out each charge and the associated penalties and you can use that to RP from. The Civ rights document will help you with your discussion as well. Thanks! @TiLLeR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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