Hellicopters

[Morphiushell]

Hi,

Whats your guys thoughts on hellis being used for illegal stuff. At the current moment they are not allowed to be used however I think it will open up a lot more RP opportunites, allow for more creative get away plans and also provide a money sink in the server.

If we apply similar steps that are applied by cops for the use of personal vehicles this could set up a 3 strikes on your helli its seized meaning a new one needs bought and not to mention the loss of helli license and the re purchase of that.

Possibly even have a system that alerts the cops when there are aircraft in the sky that are no cleared for that airspace which the cops can act on similar to their suspicious activity calls etc.

Edited August 12, 2021 by Morphiushell

[Samantha Hatfield]

Hi, Aviation Officer here.

I honestly think this would add more for the Aviation Unit to do within PD. RN are focus is pursuits and helping EMS if they need a helicopter for assistance and so forth.

I wouldn't say use it for getaways but I don't mind the using if it to move illegal substances in them.

Let's say it was used multiple times for drug trafficking then I'd say it could be seized after 3 arrests/officers discretion.

Now with that being stated, we as the Aviation unit for pd and bcso combined is under 10 people. This might help people get more interested in the unit. Too hopefully provide that opportunity to see more rp unfold if you can get away, if we can get more people to be in the sky.

 

Edited August 12, 2021 by Amberlyn Noelle-Amos

[Randy Jones]

To be fair nowhere in the server rules does it say anything helicopters 

[dK_]

5 minutes ago, Randy Jones said:

To be fair nowhere in the server rules does it say anything helicopters 

I believe it states it in the pilots license that if it’s used for illegal activities you risk loosing your license permanently.

[Samantha Hatfield]

49 minutes ago, Randy Jones said:

To be fair nowhere in the server rules does it say anything helicopters 

 

Spartan confirms you can't do crime in them.

[tay]

Had this chat with some people last night, I think use of helicopters is fine but granted if caught and identified, you lose your license forever and your helicopter will be seized.

 

I think the license and seizure of helicopter alone is more than enough ‘punishment’ through IC means and don’t think it should be extended to OOC action unless it’s heavily abused. Losing a license forever means you won’t be able to fly at all and correct me if I am wrong but if you don’t have a license to fly, you mechanically cannot fly at all.

 

And it begs the question, there are counters to people using helicopters in crime. PD have helicopters for one. But submarines for example can be used in crime/getaways which has exactly zero counters. I’d definitely like to see some further adjustments and or clarification on this as honestly I think helicopter getaways can be very exciting.

 

 

[Beans]

I personally would like some kind of ability to use a helicopter for crime. I have spent over a million on my helicopter and I would happily risk losing it IC for the right scenario. I agree that losing over a million of IC currency is enough of a punishment that it shouldn't need to be taken OOC.

I love flying my helicopter but I often feel anxious flying it to make sure I don't make a mistake which could be costly both IC and OOC as per the current rules.

Helicopters are extremely power therefore I believe the punishment if caught using one in crime should also be powerful

[Randy Jones]

3 hours ago, Amberlyn Noelle-Amos said:

 

Spartan confirms you can't do crime in them.

Right but technically speaking it's not in the server rules, and some people may just read the server rules and nothing else on the forums. If staff don't want civs using the helicopter for illegal activities then I don't understand why it wouldn't be in the server rules 

[Kota]

Yes to using them for crime. But on a 1 strike basis. You get it seized and lose your license. License cost then doubles and you have to talk to a Judge to even get the chance to get the license back and then be able to buy another aircraft.

It's not that hard to follow an aircraft with another aircraft for PD these days so I don't see the harm. 

However limit on how high you must fly and where you can land need to stay in place. It would be OP as hell to just land it at a bank robbery. So you would have to have someone landed in a designated spot allowed within the rules and then lead a chase to it. So if people can follow those rules while using their aircrafts for illegal activates let them IMO. 

Edited August 12, 2021 by Kota Taylor

[Matttheman]

As someone who came from Arma, I can say that Helicopters will just become the new meta. Instead of car switching it will be helicopter switching which will then end the chase. I think just like PD, crims should have all the tools necessary to do their thing. I don't think this a something that is currently needed. While I know a lot of people would bring good RP to it, I think it will just end up like hunting. It comes out and all of a sudden everyone is a hunter. 

[Storrent]

With how expensive helicopters are, the rich'd only get richer. This would not do any favors for the server's economy and new players will see helis in use and might feel like it's impossible to get ahead.

Furthermore, what do we do with them once they're airborne? The real-life tactic of "well, they have to land eventually" doesn't quite work when players know they can bail from their chopper and let it explode on the ground and it'll be just fine in their garage once the next restart rolls around. It'd just be a game of cat and mouse until someone runs out of fuel. Not fun.

[Beans]

I don't personally agree with the 'rich get richer' idea as long as there are heavy consequences for using it. A helicopter costs a million at least and you're risking losing that in just one illegal activity. Even the vault robbery wont pay out enough to cover the loss of the helicopter.

I see the possible use of a helicopter as opening a new avenue of RP for the people that are willing to put a million on the line to create an interesting RP scenario. 

When me and my group create criminal RP scenarios we often pump hundreds of thousands of our money into the scenario to make it fun for everyone and I see the helicopter as another avenue of that.

I understand the concerns of helicopters becoming the new meta for car swapping but as long as punishment is so high for using it, then will only be something that happens on rare occurrence rather than something that police should ever expect to have to combat.

As far as I'm aware there's only a select few organisations/gangs that could and/or would fund over a million into an RP scenario, so I believe it would be more of a rare phenomenon rather than the new meta

[Hobeiche]

I would love to use helicopters and planes for crim activity but I also get the argument that it could be the new meta.

I think there definitely is a middle ground to be found though. 

For example, what if it were allowed to be used for "light" crime lol. What I mean by that is maybe it can't be used in a chase but it CAN be used for say abducting someone, transporting illegal equipment, spotting/look out etc. along with a 3 strike rule/1 strike rule for getting caught. 

I just think it would be amazing if people were able to have shootouts against a helicopter/shoot it down, people using it to air drop into someone's compound etc. for an attack. 

As suggested above, maybe cops get alerts when people take off from air traffic control or they get alerts as soon as you hit 600 ft (which would allow for low flight stealth operations for drug trafficker's/gun running, with the caveat that you would be extremely visible to anyone on the ground. 

Even in chases, if it were ONLY used as a look out/spotter in the same way that a police helicopter can follow the crim to inform the cops on the ground where to go etc. (with group rule of the person in the heli having to be 1 of the 5 crew members etc)

I also agree, that I think the permanent loss of your license for that character and 1.2 + million dollars is pretty good punishment for getting caught / deterrent from over use

Edited August 26, 2021 by Hobeiche

[Amybos]

 

On 8/12/2021 at 5:15 PM, Morphiushell said:

Hi,

Whats your guys thoughts on hellis being used for illegal stuff. At the current moment they are not allowed to be used however I think it will open up a lot more RP opportunites, allow for more creative get away plans and also provide a money sink in the server.

If we apply similar steps that are applied by cops for the use of personal vehicles this could set up a 3 strikes on your helli its seized meaning a new one needs bought and not to mention the loss of helli license and the re purchase of that.

Possibly even have a system that alerts the cops when there are aircraft in the sky that are no cleared for that airspace which the cops can act on similar to their suspicious activity calls etc.

I get where you are coming from but being able to use a helicopter for illegal activities can be very hard to balance.

If you were to rob a bank, able to escape and then take off into a waiting helicopter, then you would be taking away the RP opportunities for all involved. Especially if we don't know you are heading to an aircraft and it takes officers a few mins or more to find someone who can fly a helicopter and to get it. I can see it being abused quite a bit.

On 8/13/2021 at 7:22 AM, Storrent said:

With how expensive helicopters are, the rich'd only get richer. This would not do any favors for the server's economy and new players will see helis in use and might feel like it's impossible to get ahead.

Furthermore, what do we do with them once they're airborne? The real-life tactic of "well, they have to land eventually" doesn't quite work when players know they can bail from their chopper and let it explode on the ground and it'll be just fine in their garage once the next restart rolls around. It'd just be a game of cat and mouse until someone runs out of fuel. Not fun.

I would have to agree with Storrent though.

Having experienced situations where helicopters or any aircrafts are utilised in criminal activity, it is very hard to try and either follow the aircraft, or taking it down is a bitch to do.

Because there are so many factors and pros and cons for using aircrafts in criminal activities that needs to be taken into consideration, IMO, it is fairer and easier for all to have the current restrictions in place.

[Morphiushell]

6 hours ago, Amybos said:

 

I get where you are coming from but being able to use a helicopter for illegal activities can be very hard to balance.

If you were to rob a bank, able to escape and then take off into a waiting helicopter, then you would be taking away the RP opportunities for all involved. Especially if we don't know you are heading to an aircraft and it takes officers a few mins or more to find someone who can fly a helicopter and to get it. I can see it being abused quite a bit.

I would have to agree with Storrent though.

Having experienced situations where helicopters or any aircrafts are utilised in criminal activity, it is very hard to try and either follow the aircraft, or taking it down is a bitch to do.

Because there are so many factors and pros and cons for using aircrafts in criminal activities that needs to be taken into consideration, IMO, it is fairer and easier for all to have the current restrictions in place.

I don't see it taking away RP opportunities, I see it adding more with regards to police getting helli certs and them bein used more etc. I would argue that any criminal doing a job main goal is to suprise the cops regardless to if they are using a hellicopter or not. They key is to keep cops on their toes and make them scramble, adjust and think on their feet quick. This is why cops train and be prepared for all possible outcomes. One of the main issues is eveyone can almost predict what is about to happen which is in my opinnion not fun.

Having something new and available makes it a breath of fresh air for everyone. Lets keep in mind its about RP on both sides and in RP you dont need to win all the time.

[Morphiushell]

I just think an example of a group doing a drug run in a water plane and the moment the plane takes off cops get a suspicious air activity call and its on cops to to the sky in attempts to locate the plane/helli then ground units try to move in on the potential landing spot make for some very good scenarios.

I know we have tried to take some leafs out of the book in other servers and I have seen this work very well elswhere all I am saying is we give it a go make adjustments along the way and see how we can make it work for us failing that we go back to the status quo.

[Morphiushell]

Ok so after some confirmation my understanding was that doing illegal stuff with your helli resulted in loss of helli, license and it was alos a rule break therefor bannable however I have since been informed that it has always just been a license requirement.

So my suggestion would be to make it 3 strikes and its seized similar to how cars are handled rather than the current 1.

[kapill89]

21 hours ago, Morphiushell said:

I just think an example of a group doing a drug run in a water plane and the moment the plane takes off cops get a suspicious air activity call and its on cops to to the sky in attempts to locate the plane/helli then ground units try to move in on the potential landing spot make for some very good scenarios.

I know we have tried to take some leafs out of the book in other servers and I have seen this work very well elsewhere all I am saying is we give it a go make adjustments along the way and see how we can make it work for us failing that we go back to the status quo.

problem still lies in the fact, that means criminals will need to do it correctly and not "cheat" the system and land heli's on say, mount chiliad with dirtbikes waiting. I just see big trouble with PD being able to contend with criminals using Heli's. Making it become the new meta, which would then make PD have to change tactics and possibly be more aggressive which could then make criminals mad. If done correctly i see great opportunities. But that comes down to crims not cheesing it.

[Morphiushell]

My character doesn't rob banks and stuff however he does hear on the daily about how hard cops are going on crims atm. Witnessed this myself yesterday when a chase came to a halt crim stepped out shot his pistol at the cop and the cop dropped him with a fully automatic.

The helli use would spice things up and make the cops have to think a bit more. Remember its not to be easy or predictable on both sides that how you get away but I do get the meta thing and thats why I am saying we adjust as we go.

A simple change, no more 1 strike lets make it similar to how the cars are handled.

[tay]

Just to clarify on what @Morphiushell stated, using a helicopter in a crime is not a server rule break. All consequences of getting caught using one will result in purely IC consequences (License seized).

Unless the helicopter was used to break a server rule itself, VDM for example would be; Intentionally flying into someone on the ground chopping them up.

[Morphiushell]

Thanks Tay better explained

But yea there has been a misconseption that it was also a rule break

[Ascendancism]

On 8/27/2021 at 4:06 PM, tay said:

Just to clarify on what @Morphiushell stated, using a helicopter in a crime is not a server rule break. All consequences of getting caught using one will result in purely IC consequences (License seized).

Unless the helicopter was used to break a server rule itself, VDM for example would be; Intentionally flying into someone on the ground chopping them up.

So last time one of our boys used a helicopter in a crime the staff team pulled them aside and spoke to them about using it saying its simply not to be used for criminal situations. Could this be clarified? At the moment it seems like everyone has a different answer. Possibly rewriting or clarifying what we can and cant do with helicopters in the server rules would be fantastic!