Craig Noble Posted August 25, 2019 Report Share Posted August 25, 2019 Just another topic on Lawyering,  I have found that one of two things happen, Either the lawyer comes in and skims through things and simply tries to barter the fines and time, or the lawyer comes in and tries to give good RP, Sometimes honestly too much so but alas good RP should be rewarded, Between the limits on pay and the police response the latter seems to be discouraged, failing things mentioned in prior articles about lawyers I feel we should find a way to reward the law RP be it increasing the time or pay to the lawyer or just encouraging officers to work with the RP more and not get so frustrated with the law RP as it takes time to get the criminal's story and craft a convincing case only to be told by the officer that's not what he said, or not what I saw or believe, One solution I have thought up is the criminal having the right explained and told to them that they have a right to not speak without their lawyer present by the officer. In game currently I have been trying to advise it to my clients and through some of my ad's, Because many times when I have come in as a lawyer and tried to create a case, They cops simply say its not exactly what my client said and shut down all RP, I am open to any other thoughts and suggestions and invite all other lawyers to put forth idea's on how we can improve our career choice going forward  2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reuben ~ Reckonity Posted August 26, 2019 Report Share Posted August 26, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, ahiredgun said: increasing the time or pay to the lawyer You guys get more than Police Officers do in 30 minutes, $1k each minute = $30k each 30 minutes, pay shouldn't be put in this.  I understand that Law RP can be frustrating but it's also frustrating for Police Officers when they see Lawyer's arguing either fines or jail time. Your job as a Lawyer is to drop charges and help your client get out free, when I start seeing that i'll agree with this but until then it should stay the way it is... I will also say that Lawyer's waiting the minutes out instead of doing the job they're tasked to do doesn't make this suggestion any better.  I will say for 2.0 that if a DOJ system comes in we'll be seeing different situations with needed evidence from both Police and Lawyers otherwise the case will be so quick. Might be more paperwork but it leads towards more RP. Lawyers are definitely something I want to see improve over the time but the quality of RP from Lawyers needs to improve too. Edited August 26, 2019 by Reuben ~ Reckonity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Noble Posted August 26, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2019 I mean RP wise lawyers should be making a lot more than you.... but your paycheck doesn't stop after 30 mins, and often officers are the reason for the extended time, An aside being that you should be reporting people abusing the mechanic as that is grounds for disbarment, My RP is very good as a lawyer and often my cases are done in less than 20 mins, But there have also been cases where the RP took precedence with me and the officer and I spent nearly 2 hr's working a case with victor lee and another gentlemen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keebler_mfn_elf Posted August 26, 2019 Report Share Posted August 26, 2019 (edited) IF you are worried about the pay then your are less interested in the RP, as soon as people learn to get past the money and focus more on RP you will find that you dont need a lot of money to have fun. As far as being a lawyer, we are not given a lot to work with, the cops call us in tell us the charges and give us a back story; after that we go to the client let them know what their charges are and get their back story. based off of what we are told by both parties is then how we argue time, fines, and restitution. there is no evidence presented that can help us make a better defense argument. Me personally, I would rather Defend someone that turns them selves in with a warrant, this is manly because officers sometime rush to get it in and they leave out a lot of key information needed to back up said warrant, giving a lawyer more backing to fight for his/her client. Edited August 26, 2019 by keebler_mfn_elf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Noble Posted August 26, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2019 I mean while I agree that it isn't about the money, We are talking about going into 2.0 and our characters having a character to stay in, Given that if someone is a lawyer and it is their primary means of making money it should be a good one, especially considering how lawyers make money irl and they should indeed be held to a high standard, But discounting the need to make sufficient money when it may be your characters only job really doesn't make sense, Not every lawyer is gonna run up the mountain and grind out cocaine to make money just to RP a lawyer, I think we are a bit stuck in the old way of thinking rather than looking forward, I spent many hours doing the lawyer thing long before the Bar existed and no one got paid, But we are moving toward stricter RP and more realistic characters and I think on that token the job should pay very well and only good lawyers allowed to persist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caralanco Posted August 26, 2019 Report Share Posted August 26, 2019 (edited) Want to start by saying I love Interacting with (good) lawyers as PD, whole prosecutor/defender thing is great, love debates. Though the legal system is skewed for 1 reason, bias. PD has the final say, clearly not BLIND JUSTICE, PD has to act as both the judge and prosecutor which sucks because there's always going to be bias I honestly try my best to reward good lawyers that bring forth good arguments and spend a lot of time on cases but one thing many do not understand is, its a 3 way street. Despite frustration, suspects should treat police with BASIC respect and vice versa. I am NOT saying get on your knees and shine boots, just dont be a fuckin jackass. Some people are just extremely toxic and simply do not deserve to have lowered penalty, simple as. Until we get some sort of court system, thats the best thing they can do. Edited October 25, 2019 by Oscar Wilde 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgs Posted August 26, 2019 Report Share Posted August 26, 2019 18 hours ago, ahiredgun said: But we are moving toward stricter RP and more realistic characters and I think on that token the job should pay very well and only good lawyers allowed to persist So who is to judge who is a good lawyer and whos not? irl there are shitty lawyers too but there still lawyers and if this goes as planned and more longer prison terms and a justice system who knows?? But I think people well act better than on a public server hence will prob be less lawyers needed less in some felony crimes I mean who knows? But it seems it always comes down to " How much can I make " In the current system I dont see where it would take longer than 30 min to argue a case from the time of clocking in cause if your that good it shouldn't take long to RP it out with the max time we have right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Noble Posted August 27, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2019 I mean have you personally tried to argue a case with these officers? I am speaking from experience and while I agree it generally doesn't for RP sake it would make sense for a larger cap and for Lawyers to make more money.... Staying in character as a Lawyer but having to grind some other way to complete the look when it comes to cars/etc doesn't really make sense, We are looking to make characters more linear and static, And I think being forced to grind because of a lack of case's or limited pay is silly, When you think of a lawyer you think of someone well of due simply to their profession, and Honestly after dealing with some officers and being drawn into long cases taking your time from anything else you may have wanted to do simply because the officer wanted to play hard ass it doesn't seem fair to be limited by the officers in this case, It has never been my client causing the delay in the case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Ross Posted August 27, 2019 Report Share Posted August 27, 2019 In BLRP, Sadly there is a rarely spoken truth about the city. Its about money and social life. You have to choose one or find a way to balance the two. You can either be richer than bill gates and have no friends or RP. Or you can be poorer than a bum on the street and have all the friends in the city. And i don't know how 30g's is a small amount, Especially when the city has a ton of action going on,(City 1) you can have cases almost back to back to back to back. It can be quite lucrative, especially if you put work into your name and reputation so people call upon you more specifically to be their lawyer. Like for example, Big Hawke always advertises it, does above and beyond for what the LSPD provides him so i **always** make an effort to call upon big hawke when hes doing his lawyering. Also with Lawyering, You can have a partner now so if you just buddy up with an existing lawyer, you two can punch in together and try and push the case together. double $, Double the RP. I think with a client not causing delay in the case is most people don't know what they can and cannot do while in jail. You can decline fines, It might get added to restitution but simply put, Most people don't know what they can and can't do while in jail so the lack of prolonged RP from their point is understandable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Noble Posted August 27, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2019 I do have a built in client base, Probably one of the larger ones honestly, I am speaking from a large pool of experience, Both now and before there was a bar system in place, But alas it is a rare thing to have back to back cases, Its more like 1-2 every few hours, as most people at current just say give me the time I don't want fines, and decline a lawyer, Given that I think it would be great for time and fines to be raised for more consequence and RP with the lawyers and the on the same token longer and more in depth RP, Hence the request Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Ross Posted August 27, 2019 Report Share Posted August 27, 2019 I think the easier solution here would to be just encourage LSPD to use something they rarely ever use. License seizing. Put that on the table and i guarantee to you that people will lawyer up immediately. There really has only ever been two times where i haven't lawyered up honestly and those were assault with a weapon which are only 10k fines no time etc. Really im not gonna be losing the charge even with a lawyer and i dont think the lawyer would appreciate not even 5 minutes about a singular fine. I don't believe increasing fines and time is a good solution, Rather its quite the opposite to me as when i get charged, im usually hit with 22 months, 18k fines and like 10k restitution on top of a 5k impound and 6750$ in weaponry + 500$ gasoline can + item disablement kit or meth lab or vault breaking kits. Really those fines all add up *fast*. Especially when its twice in a single storm i get hit with that. And this is also presuming the LSPD impounded the vehicle, If they don't, add 7850$ instead of 5k, Or if its a buddy's super car, hell of a lot more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Noble Posted August 28, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2019 On 8/26/2019 at 6:24 PM, Thorgs said: So who is to judge who is a good lawyer and whos not? My client's and the officers I deal with on a regular basis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dK_ Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 Coming from someone who is just getting into lawyer RP i think it should pay well. When i started doing it i wanted to fit the part entirely, i wanted to get a vehicle that would portray the part better then the vehicles i have already. Most of said vehicles are relatively expensive i dont feel i should have to grind doing other things to acquire what i feel would fit into that RP. I understand the fact to if lawyer's are paid very well then everyone and their mom would do it just for the money, how about a system to make it more exclusive to become a lawyer. Potentially a white listed faction like EMS or PD? Maybe make it a system where if a lawyer shows up and is doing a shitty job or very low RP let the officers dismiss them early or give them a way to reduce the pay based on the officer and or civilians take on how the experience went. Possibly have a way that if say someone is facing a 20k fine and the lawyer is able to RP it down to 10k then can be given a 10k bonus on top of their pay. Ideally a system for it to be more exclusive would be best i think, maybe a way for officers or civs to file some sort of report similar to an IA to report shotty lawyers to make so they would earn reduced pay or even loose their bar license. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgs Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Richie said: i think it should pay well  1 hour ago, Richie said: how about a system to make it more exclusive to become a lawyer. Potentially a white listed faction I dont know maybe I'm missing something but I get Lawyers want to be paid well but I think going into 2.0 now that people are WL some of the BS stuff that happens now will calm down or should else they may loose there WL status but my thing is why should the Government be paying your salary and not the client they got there self into trouble maybe an option where they have to agree on a price for them to be your lawyer when you meet with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 44 minutes ago, Thorgs said:  I dont know maybe I'm missing something but I get Lawyers want to be paid well but I think going into 2.0 now that people are WL some of the BS stuff that happens now will calm down or should else they may loose there WL status but my thing is why should the Government be paying your salary and not the client they got there self into trouble maybe an option where they have to agree on a price for them to be your lawyer when you meet with them. "If you cannot afford an attorney one will be appointed for you" I know we don't do miranda rights but i think it applies here. Also for the fact that we aren't allowed to represent ourselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dK_ Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 57 minutes ago, Thorgs said:  I dont know maybe I'm missing something but I get Lawyers want to be paid well but I think going into 2.0 now that people are WL some of the BS stuff that happens now will calm down or should else they may loose there WL status but my thing is why should the Government be paying your salary and not the client they got there self into trouble maybe an option where they have to agree on a price for them to be your lawyer when you meet with them. Whoâs going to bother with a lawyer if itâs going to cost them more then the fines themselves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Noble Posted September 4, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 5 hours ago, Richie said: Whoâs going to bother with a lawyer if itâs going to cost them more then the fines themselves? That being correct, I have personally had clients who have paid me outside of my government check for the high quality service I provided, It is very rare currently cause everyone wants to hoard their money based on the current economy,  8 hours ago, Richie said: Coming from someone who is just getting into lawyer RP i think it should pay well. When i started doing it i wanted to fit the part entirely, i wanted to get a vehicle that would portray the part better then the vehicles i have already. Most of said vehicles are relatively expensive i dont feel i should have to grind doing other things to acquire what i feel would fit into that RP. I understand the fact to if lawyer's are paid very well then everyone and their mom would do it just for the money, how about a system to make it more exclusive to become a lawyer. Potentially a white listed faction like EMS or PD? Maybe make it a system where if a lawyer shows up and is doing a shitty job or very low RP let the officers dismiss them early or give them a way to reduce the pay based on the officer and or civilians take on how the experience went. Possibly have a way that if say someone is facing a 20k fine and the lawyer is able to RP it down to 10k then can be given a 10k bonus on top of their pay. Ideally a system for it to be more exclusive would be best i think, maybe a way for officers or civs to file some sort of report similar to an IA to report shotty lawyers to make so they would earn reduced pay or even loose their bar license. I agree wholeheartedly on this point, Make it a well paying job, But have a standard of excellence, SOP's of a sort, I have seen a case where a client asked his lawyers be dismissed because they were trying to force him into a lie he had no way to back up, they even tried to submit false evidence which when countered by the officers they tried to weasel out of it by requesting a supervisor, When the officers investigated further with the suspect is when he asked if he could speak to said officer alone and the lawyer was dismissed, Still 30k richer each.... For a well paying job there should be standards and maybe even WL on that note I would be happy to work with a few other good lawyers and possibly hammer out some of those things while still leaving wiggle room for RP and the "creative license" that is sometimes needed as a lawyer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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