Court is in session

[Kota]

Just wanted to start the thread for the courthouse RP so drop some ideas. 

 

Personally, I would like to see a vote on a few judges maybe a server 1 and a server 2 judge and a third to fill in.

[Hoopsure]

I think we should vote on a Chief Judge, then that Chief Judge can hire and fire new judges and set up the systems for how court will work and lawyers. I think one of our current lawyers would be a good fit to vote on to be a judge since the Chief Judge should be someone who has a good bit of knowledge on law and courtroom procedures, and someone we know won’t be corrupt. Once the Chief Judge is voted in they can handle the hiring and firing of judges and making official lawyers. Also judges should be judges across all servers, not just one. Plus having multiple judges means they're available for cases more often.

[Matttheman]

My biggest worry about this is that someone will be put in the position to help out friends and/or in game family. It seems very tough to get someone who will not be biased in anyway shape or form to anyone or anything. 

[dK_]

Maybe this can be part of the mayor RP stuff, he/she gets to pick a Chief Justice of their choice or keep the current one in placed.

[Merr Khan]

As much as I love the idea of a proper judicial system, there are some concerns I have.... 

 

What is the purpose of court?

Is this only civil court, Between disgruntled neighbors, business partners, or spouses?

How will a court case be made? Can anybody just go in a take anyone else to court for any reason?

Will a summons to court be delivered by an LEO to the player after a case has been accepted? 

How would a judges ruling be carried out, this is a light RP server. If you take me to court, and sue me for beating you up. I can just stay home and say no, IRL that's a default lose for no show.

Will LEO's execute Judges rulings? Or will the judge have to put in a request for funds to be transferred from the loser to the winner? 

Will any out of game resource be aloud, IE: Using an out of game media to capture an in game media source, such as using the camera/film emote and taking a screen shot of it. 

^ If not, then I can just say I took a picture with my in game phone/camera, do "/me shows picture on phone", and let RP take it from there.  

 

Or is this more for criminal court?

Were criminals of a certain level (felony) are being tried?

Since the standard of criminal evidence on this server is so strict, (means if you are getting charged, we saw you do it) I see little value in adding more steps to getting someone into prison. 

Judges would have to have access to police SOP, ticketing guide, & posses exceptional knowledge of inner police workings. So basically only Sgt+ could be a Judge.

Criminal court only works on hardcore server were RP is top priority to all who are involved, and prison time actually matters (hrs)....... even there, court is not for every case, only for when cops want to push for over max time (120 min), to seize properties (houses/biz/vehicles),  or for the 9's (death penalty).

Another purpose I have seen for judges is to issue or deny Firearm Lic. based on your recent criminal activity (if you go a week clean, your good), But w/out perm rec. to track criminal activities that's hard to sort out. 

 

Im not trying to put this down, but unless that Judge has an amazing mullet..... and has the support of staff (IE: An official WL roll)............ I can't see it working as an official means of deliberating and prosecuting. More as just a court house to hang out in, and maybe do some fun RP if you want to.    

 

[Serena]

I want to bring this back to life, because I think that the Court is extremely neglected and could seriously add some very good RP. I had an impromptu court case a few weeks ago and it was SO FUN! Everyone involved was extremely excited and wanted more!

I think this brings forward so many more opportunities for everyone involved, and could potentially help the recent issues people have brought up regarding criminal RP.

Merr brought up very good points, and this thread I think highlights a lot of the concerns that there would be if it were to be a thing.

I think we should look at the use of court similarly to how we have SOP's: They're catered to our server and not necessarily a 100% depiction of what happens in real life.

My suggestions:

• If someone has a felony they're eligible to go to court under the circumstance that they have not self-incriminated at that point (no one wants their time wasted when someone already admitted to their acts). I believe even as direct witness someone could argue down their charges per normal.

-I would also say that all parties understand this is a longer process and should be prepared ahead of time. Otherwise normal lawyer requests can be made per usual.

• It has to happen right then, there will be no scheduling of court cases. This means that a judge, a DA, and lawyer representation must be available. If not, handle as normal.

-This implies that a jury is not needed but is preferred. If no jury, the judge acts as a "mediator" after hearing both sides and comes to a decision with the facts. If jury is present, both sides say their piece, jury finds how the accused will be charged (guilty/not guilty) and the judge decides the amount of time/fines based off the defendant being guilty/not guilty. 

-Allowing a jury means more opportunities for players to interact in a pure RP situation. Audience allowed but only to watch/observe.

• A judge would be a whitelisted position, in that not just anyone can perform this duty. It was previously brought up that perhaps the mayor of the city could be the judge. I am not quite sure what happened with all the mayor stuff.

-Potentially a judge at this time could be an FTS+ or one of the staff members for the interim (I would be MORE than happy to help this out to get it going).

-I do not think a DA or lawyer need to be whitelisted, as it gives opportunity to the public to try and up their RP game. It also helps civilians come to understand the city law without getting caught in a criminal act.

• No weapons are allowed in the courthouse. If someone uses weapons in an active court case with the intention to disrupt the RP, it would count as disruptive behavior and can lead to admin action.

• For court cases specifically, I think lawyers, DA's, and judges should have a "clock-in" area where they are able to have increased pay for their services. It will increase their paycheck by x amount (don't want to break anything, but I think it should be enough to be enticing) to reward for their efforts. 

-The clock-in area can only be accessed by a police officer (a door that is locked). 

-People found abusing this will be blacklisted just as people abusing Tow/Pilot's licenses and likely have the compensation removed from their bank.

 

In all of this, I think that eligibility to go to court and being required to go to court are different things. The use of the court should be optional in all situations, and the current system in place of being allowed a lawyer for felonies will remain untouched. 

Additionally, if you do decide to go to court, it should not be based off of what's currently going on in the city. If it's busy, that should not be the deciding factor. Correct me if I am wrong, but in the real world, a police officer under investigation or required to go to court would not be actively on duty. They would do their case before getting back to work. I think the "optional" aspect of this should be based off interest to participate in this kind of roleplay and time available.

These are just my initial thoughts with only 1 true opportunity used at the courthouse, and I really would like to see more! One of the most interactive and fun experiences I've had on badlands as of yet, even despite that my case was minor.

Imagine what would happen if this became more of a thing! We would start seeing law offices being RP'd, people trying to make a name for themselves and to build a reputation. I think lawyer RP is highly underrated because of it's current repetitive, stale state. I personally want more QoL in my RP, and I think this would be a great addition with very little changes needed overall from everyone involved!

I know that we can simply RP this now, but I think by making it an understood thing within the LSPD and the community as a whole, we're opening more doors for RP with everyone who wants to be involved/knows what it's about.

Would love to hear your feedback and suggestions on this! Thanks for reading my essay

[Saja Kain]

I've said it elsewhere, but I wouldn't mind taking part in this. I'm already involved in the legal system (both as a lawyer and member of the LSPD). I've quite enjoyed my time with both but, specifically speaking from the lawyer's point of view, I believe expanding the use of the courthouse could be quite enjoyable.

[Amybos]

I participated in the court case Serena was the one being charged. And I loved it. I think that what Serena has suggested is a great way to go about it. I have been a lawyer on a number of occasions and it’s great fun. 

[___]

I also was a part of the court-RP that took place. I thought it was a very immersive and in-depth experience and had tons of fun with it - even though I was one of the individuals facing charges. I would love to see it implemented and all of the points listed above appear as if they'll make it a great & organized system to have in place. 

[Flori]

I don't think PD should be involved. Either create a new small faction for it or possibly implement some mechanics to allow civs to do it. (create a bar exam for lawyers and judges, licences, etc) < the latest has my vote.
 

[Serena]

Only problem with that is the only way/reason we would even be going to court with the aforementioned points is because of LSPD catching some kind of criminal. In the way it was laid out, it would require felonies. At the very least the arresting officer would have to go to court to be able to provide all the facts from their side and to also be cross-examined.

[Skittles]

I know that other servers had court and a few times the rp was great, however imo court would be better as a chat based system. It could be discord or the forums, forcing more players to join to do the case. As a ton of players are needed to run a case and most crims would find it boring as the outcome is most likely to result in a punishment for the crim player. Getting the court case scheduled seems like its easy, but from watching other servers its actually very hard to get all the court and crim players on at the same time. I know some readers might be saying "but if he has a good lawyer he can get off charges", the only way this would be a good thing is if the punishment would be an account reset, otherwise as a crim the system is fine now how it is. It takes too long to process crims as it is. Not to mention jail is boring af, and should be served off line where if you go to jail that character slot has a cool down, this way its not taking a server slot.

[chat based system where all players can chat at the hours they are available until the chat session/court case has ended]discord court channel would be the easiest thing and could start right away 

 

[Mia]

Use the courthouse as an event and reward for good rp. 

FTS+ who encounter a really well rp'd crime can release the suspect on bond, $25k. Once every one or two months, during a senior pd meeting, cops choose one case to go to trial. People sign up on the forums for a job (bailiff, court reporter, juror, judge, lawyer, alternates etc). Suspect chooses their own lawyer, staff or pd can pick the judge and prosecutor, a lottery system for the rest . Everyone is informed a few weeks in advance of the date so they can rp out lawyer meetings and prepare. Everyone provided with a framework of how the trial will work so it runs smoothly ie 3 mins for opening arguments, 3 minutes per witness etc. Takes place on the dev server. 

I think a system like this would save the trouble of redesigning the whole legal system to include court, encourage better rp, and bring people together that don't normally run into each other.

 

Edited March 13, 2019 by Mia

[Victor Lee]

Would love to get more court RP going!

[Merr Khan]

Why has nobody started a Judge Judy TV show?

There is nothing against players using the courthouse for that purpose. 

On duty Cops atm can not assist or particapte with any court related RP,  so your on your own as far as keeping the peace. 

However with normal player reports for disruptive behavior, I see no issue with using the court house and keeping it civil. 

I would love to get some court RP going, of course like on the TV shows. Both parties would have to be in on it. 

I don't see any way to force players into court or to force a Judges decision on a player. It would have to be completely volunteer based. 

 

Edited June 12, 2019 by Merr Khan

[Kota]

Issue is I would bet most of our community would want cops to be involved in the judicial system. The old catch, fine or send away gets old. And it really would take a push from Senior staff to make it happen IMO. 

I am sure if judges were a paying clock in job someone would do it. Biased judges can be removed and blacklisted simple as that... We already do that for lawyers see no issue doing it for judges. 

Making people obtain licenses from the court rather than the airport would be better roleplay overall. 

Being able eliminate the lawyer at PD and move that roleplay to a courtroom with a judge and not the arresting officer deciding the final fate of the person is better for roleplay as well. You free up cops to just be cops and not have to be judge jury and executioner. Cops could just catch detain for a short period in the cells and honestly they could bail out prices depending on the crime. This could just be what the restitution already is.  (getting a court date this way) That they attend at the said time to see if they can knock off the rest of the time with a lawyer or end up being sent to prison from the courthouse and fined.... It opens up the chance for more RP if you skip your court date and end up getting a felony out for your arrest adding more interactions for the police and the wanted system.  If someone didn't bail out of jail they would be forced to go straight to prison and server the default time or pay the default ticket. This would at least eliminate cops having to be involved heavy into a courtroom scene. Cops could just write up a statement with the bail as to what they saw or witnessed similar to a wanted record... Cops tech then wouldn't have to be present in court from there on unless they wanted to be there or had the time. I see people saying we need tons of people to make court work... Honestly that just isn't the case... For court to work here in badlands it would need to be simple... No cross examining no cops having to be present to give their statements and no jury. Literally it would be a judge a lawyer and the accused parties. PD as I said could post their statements like they do similar to the wanted records and its up to the lawyer from there to try to convince the judge of what happened. 

Judge could also handle licenses so you would have to go talk to a real person rather than just go spend some cash. Forcing player to player interactions organically through game mechanics. I mean if a hard criminal just got their firearm or driver's license taken having to explain why they won't be a menace to society if they get it back would be good roleplay. 

Marriages through the court, Two parties go there to obtain the license rather than going to the church giving the judges more to do along side the criminal stuff and the licenses. 

Maybe could even handle player to player lawsuits... The potential is great for all the roleplay this could bring

I personally like the idea of having to go into a courtroom hire a lawyer and have roleplay as to why I did what I did rather than just try to talk a cop down out of the ticket. This overall would free up the police officers time not having to sit there and argue with suspects during processing you literally just would have to catch them detain them jail them and post a bail price and get back out there and play your role as cop and stop robbing the lawyers of roleplay as what happens after a cop jails someone is realistically not up to them nor is a police officers job. 

 

Edited June 12, 2019 by Kota Taylor