Bleed out change

[Kota]

I have a simple change and that is,  Cops being allowed to throw civilians at the foot of the hospital doors to get a revive when there is an absence of EMS in the city, Or stop letting them drag other cops to get revived when there is also no EMS around. It should be one or the other and not getting special treatment due to wearing a badge... I don't personally find it fair to civilians that PD can revive each other with a lack of EMS around but have to refuse service to civs. It's sad we have to sometime resort to kidnapping cops to force them to take friends to the hospital. And I get sometimes people need to go to the light and that's fine. But it's not exactly fair for that rule to only apply to Civs. Officers should have to bleed out just like civs do. So as I stated either allow officers to help civs as much as they can and I don't mean play EMS as police scenes and crime would have to take priority... But either make officers have to bleed out like civs do or allow the cops to help civs like they do with fellow officers. 

And before I get the normal join ems and help be a solution not the problem stuff... Not everyone is cracked up for EMS or enjoys it. Just like some don't enjoy or are cracked up for PD it's not always the answer to sit there and say that. 

And I don't want this to seem like a negative towards EMS they work their asses off keeping us alive this is more of a comment towards how PD treats fellow officers vs Civs. 

Edited March 2, 2019 by Kota Taylor

[Serpico]

14 minutes ago, Kota Taylor said:

It's sad we have to sometime resort to kidnapping cops to force them to take friends to the hospital. 

 

I would discourage this. You have a great chance to be dealing with an Admin if you do this. This would fall under as exploiting.

[Missladee]

I can say I do agree, It has been a bit ridiculous the past couple of days the lack of EMS around and how many times I see people having to go into the light. There is way more cops around than EMS 98% of the time. I would really like to at least see the LSPD being able to drop you at the hospital for care, not revive as that is not their job but just send you to the hospital. If EMS is around let them do their job, but if there is zero EMS, it is kind of shitty to have a full 32 people on, and no one to help to get civs up. I get that some people find EMS boring or perhaps not for them and that is fair. But there needs to be something done for when the situation happens where there isn't anyone to help. 

I would also like to suggest since we are on this topic for the possibility to extend the bleed out timer just a bit, maybe by 5-10 minutes more. This also being for the fact that the lack of EMS and only 1 to 2 being on at a time. Giving them a bit more time to get to the people- while still giving the civilians the option to take a flight out if they want or just wait it out. I have been in all sides of the situation, I been EMS and know how it is to be the only one on, and not being able to get to people on time. So been on PD and know how it can be frustrating to play EMS. But I never had an issue with helping people in the situation. Just let cops drop them into the hospital. I been playing civilian allot lately and just been noticing these things, so I am just commenting and giving my input and suggestions for hopes of maybe helping find a solution for this. My heart is always in it for helping in making this server the best as it is been part of my RP for a long time. 

 

Edited March 2, 2019 by Missladee

[Kota]

15 minutes ago, Serpico said:

I would discourage this. You have a great chance to be dealing with an Admin if you do this. This would fall under as exploiting.

I get where that may be the case and you're not wrong at all but let me give you a scenario, A couple officers hauling off 3 fellow cops and a criminal (Who will get a revive to be processed and a chance to keep their stuff by paying fines or going to jail)  in a bunch of cop cars... While the innocent one that was just shot by the criminal caught in the crossfire sits there and has the bleed out and lose their stuff is messed up.  This is why this system is a bit broken in my honest opinion. 

Edited March 2, 2019 by Kota Taylor

[Serpico]

I understand what you are saying, but forcing LSPD to break SOP and putting them in a position of fear of IA is not the way to go about it.

[Thorgs]

This has been debated on another topic not sure why were starting a different one and there is a simple solution as well you can join EMS and help out

Edited March 2, 2019 by Thorgs

[Kota]

Saying I could join EMS is just ignoring the issue that I am trying to prove here. All I am saying is if CIVS have to bleed out when there is no EMS so should Cops. Or allow the same treatment for Civs to get thrown into a backseat and helped by cops too. Shit add a fail rate on it. But it's not at all fair just cuz you have a badge you get a pass on the no EMS better value your life a bit more rule. In fact, a lack of EMS is useful at times it allows for people to go to the light which I know is needed. But you create a plan B and a lack of value of life for cops in situations that even if they go down there are no repercussions as they lose nothing but a vest. And again as I said before if you want cops to be able to do that... It's only fair they extend it out to civs too.... Personally, I would love to see NO EMS on duty well than no revives at all no matter the stipulation and also hiding the EMS discord channels so people can't meta as people would be more careful and would add that much more importance to the EMS role... but I know that will never happen as I can see where that can get tricky with processing a suspect and whatnot from being on the cop end of the stick for well over a year and a half. But I still see no reason why a cop can get a get out of the light free card due to this. 

Edited March 2, 2019 by Kota Taylor

[ValkyrieBlu]

I agree something should change. Cops have the ability to revive each other after the scene is clear and thats that. But telling a civ they'll face admin action for holding up a cop in order to revive a friend? Whats the difference between that and holding up a cop to get a friend out of prison??? Its a super high risk for the civ, involving lots of roleplaying and, if you think about it, not really a whole lot of gunplay cause if a civ shoots the cop, then no one gets revived.  Gunplay would be the choice of the cop at that point if he/she wants to comply or not. The complaint that we have a lack of EMS has always been answered with "join it then and stop complaining" but, I'm sorry, this is a lazy man's answer. That keeps getting thrown out there rather than finding a better one. 

I would also like to point out a problem with PD responding to a scene with a downed civ, whether EMS is on or not. I think part of the problem is, at its core, really shitty RP.  In the last few weeks, I've been downed maybe 4 times where EMS has not been available and a cop has been on scene. Not once did any officer come over to my body, ask me if I was doing okay, tell me that EMS isn't available, RP out doing everything they can but it still not being enough. They've walked around, checked out the scene, ignored me and berated my companions for foolish behavior. Or come up to me and berated me for foolish behavior. No care or value for my life as I lay dying. I know this has been discussed before and I believe Dash had a topic about it somewhere but I would love to see this adressed. 

This has only been a problem in my eyes since cop reviving on scene was removed. They have no SOP requirement to treat me at all or even awknowledge my presence so therefore they dont need to roleplay anything. Granted this is not all cops. As I said before, Dash has made a point about wanting to RP as someone who cares about human life. But the cops that do this are few and far between. Just because I know that the person is just going to respawn and be A-okay, doesnt mean Amber does. Amber sees someone on the ground and assumes theyre in critical condition.

Whether you give cops the ability to throw civs in their car and get them treated at a hospital, or you remove the ability for cops to revive each other, they need training in dealing with people who are downed when EMS isnt available. 

[TiLLeR]

There are many of you trying to portray this as a Cop problem... I don't think it is.  Remember the reason that we made this change was because PD became a secondary EMS.  We literally had people leaving LSFD to go to LSPD because they could do both (cop and treat people).  The change was made to add more value to the LSFD/EMS role and allow LSPD to focus on their police duties.  Allowing PD to transport people will make the situation worse than it was before. Not only will PD have to start focusing on EMS duties again, but they'll have the added penalty of transporting the person across the city to a hospital.   That is not the mandate of the LSPD on Badlands.  I'm open to other suggestions to the core problem of how to deal with down players when EMS is not online, but the LSPD is not the solution to the problem.  I've stated many times the reasons why PD has limited SOP's to deal with some situations in the other threads so will assume that you've all read that and not waste more of your time.   And before you all think that PD doesn't have to deal with going to the light - that simply isn't true at all.  I've had to respawn at least 3 times in the last 2 weeks.  I still firmly believe that there is plenty of risk for everyone on badlands.

 

[Missladee]

17 minutes ago, TiLLeR said:

 I'm open to other suggestions to the core problem of how to deal with down players when EMS is not online, but the LSPD is not the solution to the problem. 

Can I then suggest perhaps allowing us the civilians to be able to transport downed players to the hospital if no EMS is around? Perhaps at a fee or cost of something? RP wise it would make sense if us as citizens see someone down and hurt with no one to help to be able to at least give them a ride over to the nearest hospital so they can get treated then. This is another idea, perhaps executed differently but I would love to at least be able to have this option, which would also allow us to help each-other and add more to interacting and RP with other players. Any input  and thoughts on this would be greatly appreciate it. 

Edited March 3, 2019 by Missladee

[Kota]

Fundamentally all I really want to see is a bit of fairness all around with how cops can transport other cops. I am fine going down for the count so long as cops have too as well and are not permitted to transport each other to the hospital only the suspect by an active non downed officer... Yes, it might be quick and convenient but I just feel strongly cops should also have to bite that bullet just like civilians do with no EMS. 

And to add to victoria's idea make it expensive to visit a hospital while downed with no EMS... Make it cost them something... That way there is still incentive to have EMS on as it would be like fuck these hospital bills are gonna cost an arm and a leg without a proper EMT to diagnose my issue prior to arriving sorta thing. Maybe it would be better to get airlifted. 

Edited March 3, 2019 by Kota Taylor

[[uDi]uncle_walter87]

12 minutes ago, Missladee said:

Can I then suggest perhaps allowing us the civilians to be able to transport downed players to the hospital if no EMS is around? Perhaps at a fee or cost of something? RP wise it would make sense if us as citizens see someone down and hurt with no one to help to be able to at least give them a ride over to the nearest hospital so they can get treated then. This is another idea, perhaps executed differently but I would love to at least be able to have this option, which would also allow us to help each-other and add more to interacting and RP with other players. Any input  and thoughts on this would be greatly appreciate it. 

Almost like the "drop-off" that people do where they boot their shot buddy at the doors of the ER and take off. Interesting thought. Maybe something like this doesn't result in a full heal?

[TiLLeR]

I'm over thinking this and @Serpico will probably hate me but this could be fun:

1.  No EMS clocked on
2.  Enable Civilian CPR
3.  x % chance at revival
4.  If revival succeeds timer starts to get them to a hospital for stabilization
5.  If the timer expires returns them to a downed state

*there are a lot of holes still but to start the creative juices maybe....

[Kota]

1 minute ago, TiLLeR said:

I'm over thinking this and @Serpico will probably hate me but this could be fun:

1.  No EMS clocked on
2.  Enable Civilian CPR
3.  x % chance at revival
4.  If revival succeeds timer starts to get them to a hospital for stabilization
5.  If the timer expires returns them to a downed state

I love that idea. 

[Missladee]

4 minutes ago, TiLLeR said:

I'm over thinking this and @Serpico will probably hate me but this could be fun:

1.  No EMS clocked on
2.  Enable Civilian CPR
3.  x % chance at revival
4.  If revival succeeds timer starts to get them to a hospital for stabilization
5.  If the timer expires returns them to a downed state

 

Love this. +++1 Would def love to see something like this implemented.

Edited March 3, 2019 by Missladee

[Kota]

I like this idea as it at least would give civs a small chance to survive. Would allow for a placeholder for some RP that we would get normally with EMS. And would be a good compromise imo for cops being able to help each other to the hospital on duty.  Great suggestion @TiLLeR

[�������]

On 3/2/2019 at 7:04 PM, TiLLeR said:

I'm over thinking this and @Serpico will probably hate me but this could be fun:

1.  No EMS clocked on
2.  Enable Civilian CPR
3.  x % chance at revival
4.  If revival succeeds timer starts to get them to a hospital for stabilization
5.  If the timer expires returns them to a downed state

*there are a lot of holes still but to start the creative juices maybe....

Beautiful thinking

[Serpico]

Keep in mind this does not solve encouraging EMS presence. This is a band-aid fix. I have things on my plate before we go this route.