Too far gone to save. #Realism

[Merr Khan]

Since a majority of players voted for more realism in the server, i had a though kicking around the old noggin for a while. Any and all feedback is wanted!! 

It seems like different action hurt a player different amounts. For instance falling from a small height or falling from a big height. Getting hit by a car going 20mph or getting nailed by one going 75mph. What are the thoughts (if it can even be done @Serpico) To separate small injuries from serious injuries, that typically one shot you down, and force the re-spawn? So you fall down a little hill, with low HP to start, and go down, no big deal EMS comes and fixes your boo boo. Then on the other hand someone who jumps/slips of a sky scrapper/Mountain cliff..... nope... forced re-spawn. Same with a Mountain lion attack, they rip your throat out....... Ever seen a motorcycle crash were they were going faster then 40 mph and not wearing the right gear? I bet @TiLLeR has. Not a very pretty scene to roll up on.

So basically any dmg amount that would kill you should IMO. Yes it sucks, yes you lose what you had and stats. But without real consequences for stupid or careless action's then there is nothing stopping people from.... doing anything they want (however unrealistic it is).

So i'm not sure how Dmg is rendered in this game. lets say it is #'s and full health is 100%... any dmg amount taken that is less then 99% shouldn't kill you (no forced re-spawn) even if your at 20% health and take a hit for 90% that's fine. Just go down like normal and EMS/Police can help. However no matter how much health you have, (unless you have armor), If you take a hit of 101% or more dmg it would force you to respawn.   

The main reason i feel this way is because the only time i see true value to life is when there are no ems or cops on, and that's rare now. Magically when there are no EMS services available people don't get hurt as much???? So this may be anecdotal evidence but its pretty clear that people don't act as stupid or carelessly when there are real consequences for their actions.           

[Gambino]

Agreed, people were just jumping off the buildings at legion today, knowing EMS would just come and revive them. Of course IRl there would be no chance of survival, so they should just be left to respawn and evaluate their wonderful RP. Value of life is something sorely needed here.

[TiLLeR]

I agree with a mechanic that leads to a more punitive death and avoids the ability for players to sit on the ground for an infinite amount of time however would not like to see it implemented like this.  It's to easy a way for any criminal to avoid ever getting caught (ie jumps off a bridge - oh well I'm dead and can avoid 30 minutes in jail and only have to wait 3 minutes to respawn).   Two suggestions I have made in the past are:

1.  Put a timer while 'downed/kocked out' where EMS can tend to your needs.  If x time has passed force respawn.  Again people should not be able to stay on the ground hours waiting for EMS to save their weed run or log off and come back on during populated hours.  I think 10 to 15 minutes would be more than enough to give them a chance before they slipped into the darkness.  I think that would limit some of the silliness with jumping off a building 20 times to be a burden to EMS.

2.  Put a cool down between revives.  If you've been revived within 5 minutes, you can't be revived again for 10 minutes.  Similar to above but again doesn't allow for the insta heal just b/c EMS is next to you when you make same choice two times in a row (like trying the 720/triple back flip motorcycle ramp off legion square garage).

The scenario that @T.Gambino described almost sounds disruptive if it was happening repeatedly.  EMS does a great job at tending to the needs of the city, but they should be treated with some respect and to me people who do this repeatedly with little to no RP value are not respecting what our EMS staff are here to do.  In addition they are potentially delaying care for some players who died in a more legitimate way.  If you think behavior like this is getting disruptive please bring it to an admins attention.

[Anton]

i once fell from 8 miles height , got a Hello Kitty™ bandage and walked away. i absolutely agree that above a specific amount of damage, there should be death

[TiLLeR]

I'll add a 3rd option that I heard recently that may provide the balance you are looking for (if possible)...

3.  Depending on the damage calculated when you are kocked out (I won't call it death b/c we don't have that in badlands ATM), a medic can fully revive you if damage under x amount.  If over x amount the medic can stabilize you but you have to go to a hospital for treatment.  Without that you'll have partial health and will be hindered in some way.  

Again not a fan on the fully dead thing b/c even miracles happen IRL but I 100% agree with all of you that we need something different.

[speed]

56 minutes ago, TiLLeR said:

I'll add a 3rd option that I heard recently that may provide the balance you are looking for (if possible)...

3.  Depending on the damage calculated when you are kocked out (I won't call it death b/c we don't have that in badlands ATM), a medic can fully revive you if damage under x amount.  If over x amount the medic can stabilize you but you have to go to a hospital for treatment.  Without that you'll have partial health and will be hindered in some way.  

Again not a fan on the fully dead thing b/c even miracles happen IRL but I 100% agree with all of you that we need something different.

Funny enough, @Serpico and I just had this discussion yesterday, and this is the option we were leaning towards.

We're definitely going to be reworking death mechanics soon. It doesn't really make much sense that someone can take a bullet to the head, wait a few minutes, and walk away like nothing happened.

We'll also be looking into removing the ability for people to lay on the ground for as long as it takes for a medic to get to them. At some point you need to die.

[Merr Khan]

I like the time limit cool down idea on being revived, I have gone days with out getting injured (not doing stupid stuff), and i have had days were the medics are always coming back, (BMX tricks on ramps are deadly). But i try to give a big level of RP and entertainment to the EMS when they have to keep coming back. Or i give them $1k-5k.

Good point to it being abused be people trying to get away from cops by dying. Would have to come up with something to deal with that. Maybe if you are in the 15-20 min cool down window from being revived recently, And you go down again for any reason, there would be a 1-2 min down'd wait time before you could press enter, But if you are cuffed you cant re-spawn and you can be taken to a medic to be healed? 

 

Also side note, i don't think anyone here is talking about perma death (lose house, $, cars...ex)...... just reg death were you lose all your shit and stats. 

Edited December 4, 2017 by Merr Kahn

[speed]

6 minutes ago, Merr Kahn said:

Also side note, i don't think anyone here is talking about perma death (lose house, $, cars...ex)...... just reg death were you lose all your shit and stats. 

This will not ever happen, unless the user specifically requests it.

[Merr Khan]

@speed Just making sure we were all on the same page. 

[XZiggsX]

18 hours ago, TiLLeR said:

1.  Put a timer while 'downed/kocked out' where EMS can tend to your needs.  If x time has passed force respawn.  Again people should not be able to stay on the ground hours waiting for EMS to save their weed run or log off and come back on during populated hours.  I think 10 to 15 minutes would be more than enough to give them a chance before they slipped into the darkness.  I think that would limit some of the silliness with jumping off a building 20 times to be a burden to EMS.

 

1

this will create a lot of hate and frustration with EMS personnel. I mean, reasonable people will get it, but a lot of players will fill chat (and maybe discord) with hate on the EMS.

Something to keep in mind

[TiLLeR]

I think people do not appreciate EMS and feel entitled to a revive.  Perhaps this will make people value their lives and appreciate EMS some more as they will literally be there to save them. 

Edited December 5, 2017 by TiLLeR

[Flori]

The timer before automatic respawn will only bring more stress to EMS imo. I strongly suggest we dont do that. They already complain for the delay, they will HATE us if we dont make it on time.

I still believe that bringing patients to the hospital is the best way. I know it takes EMS a lot of time to do that... but i believe we should make the effort to try to "enforce" the Value of Life Rule.

[TiLLeR]

I get what you are saying Flori and I don't want EMS hate at all.  I think we created the problem by allowing people to always be revived and now they expect it.  We are talking RP based loosely on real life and IRL people die.  Here they take a headshot or fall off a 200 story building and get a band aid.  I really think force respawn needs to happen for a lot of reasons.  I think people will appreciate you guys more TBH.  I do agree that people are going to give grief if you can't make it in time but we can find ways to deal with that.

[Thorgs]

1 hour ago, TiLLeR said:

Here they take a headshot or fall off a 200 story building and get a band aid

I would have to agree with TiLLeR on this! its to the point now people request EMS via OOC and Twitter and Discord and its getting ridiculous tbh,  and some will carry on thru a restart to try and get revived there will dislike at first but it really needs to be done and maybe they wont be so careless next time.

[Nero]

This is partly why I made the EMS and PD appreciation topic. The day the hunting was implemented there was this one dead guy going on and on about EMS taking to long, meanwhile he was told they were in a meeting. The complaining didn't stop...and guess what 20 mins after he was revived he was asking for an ems again. I said in ooc to let him wait 10 mins longer lol, but thats all i said as i didn't want to fight in ooc. I was going to go on a rant about it being a priveledge not a right etc but decided to leave it alone seeing as people get upset when people talk in ooc about anything other than game questions.

I thought about becoming an EMS but I might get kicked pretty fast for not being able to put up with the BS i see. I think i have died around 4 times since i started about a week ago, once was testing things out when i started, once from a new motorcycle ha! and 2x from the angy cats. When I'm a moron i take the death, I dont press E or whine in twitter, yup it cost me about 30k but guess what??? I didn't do that again.

I like the hospital idea though as long as it makes them wait for at least 10 mins lol. Perhaps if being revived started costing money for the servives or taking more time after being revived to play again, and i dont mean $1000, you gotta hit them where it hurts so maybe they will take it seriously. Money and time seem to be what people care about the most so...

[Flori]

@TiLLeR what about those kind of injuries make you die (respawn) right away without even having the chance to call 911? Is it possible in terms of mechanics, like Merr suggested?

[TiLLeR]

That's a serpico thing but I'm not a favor of insta death for the reasons I stated above.  People will use it to avoid RP that is not going in their favor and take the 'easy' out.  That's just my opinion.  Speed indicated that he and serpico were talking about something but I'm not sure what exactly that will be.  Hopefully it strikes a better balance than we have now.