Pay rise for illegals

[Guest]

With many of the rises in pays for EMS, and police, there still hasn't been much in terms for illegals being balanced or other jobs being balanced.

 

Currently, you have a few options for illegals but most of it is counteracted by other jobs that give more yet have no risk involved like a fine, meaning there is no real incentive for illegal activity (especially considering the illegal informer is a thing, what is the point for doing a truck full of meth when you can be found out and the pay for Meth is only $150.)

 

In my opinion, weed should have a small increase as right now it has the same amount of effort where you have to collect, process and then sell, and this is the same as gold; however, gold, nothing is going to happen if you get caught, with weed, you get caught, fined and if you have over the limit, you might get a seized vehicle. This to me seems very unbalanced for a $10 increase in price. The price for weed should get upped to at least $150.

 

With regards to meth, it should be upped considerably as the cost in order to do meth is quite high, first buying the RV, then the kits, and then cooking and the potential to get caught through the illegal informer, all for $150 per meth. For this, I would think an increase to about $250 would be decent for the amount of effort.

 

These are only numbers off the top of my head, but like I said, it seems quite unbalanced for the effort and risk to reward.

 

 

[Kilo]

JUst finished my first meth job and with all the crazy naked's, shit slow 65k rv , 2 k coleman stove the time and risk involved. I will just stick to gold

[Kota]

I personally am not in favor of raising drug prices. They seem to be at a good place from what I can see atm. 

Edited December 7, 2017 by KotaJon91

[World]

1 minute ago, KotaJon91 said:

I personally am not in favor of raising drug prices. They seem to be at a good place from what I can see atm. 

Not really, doing legal stuff pays more so I have to disagree with that one.

[Kota]

The EMS and PD got pay increases to keep people on duty. Rather than grinding drugs. Money per hour for my SGT paycheck is a break even pay for weed. Corps and normal patrol officers actually per hour are taking a loss. So please don't use EMS and PD as an excuse to raise drug prices as it would just mean less people on duty again. 

Edited December 7, 2017 by KotaJon91

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Dars said:

JUst finished my first meth job and with all the crazy naked's, shit slow 65k rv , 2 k coleman stove the time and risk involved. I will just stick to gold

This is one of the reasons that with a higher price for illegals, it would incentivies people into doing illegals, and thus would make for some more RP for both parties.

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, KotaJon91 said:

The EMS and PD got pay increases to keep people on duty. Rather than grinding drugs. Money per hour for my SGT paycheck is a break even pay for weed. Corps and normal patrol officers actually per hour are taking a loss. So please don't use EMS and PD as an excuse to raise drug prices as it would just mean less people on duty again. 

And to be quite honest, it compares quite favourable to the increase in pay for EMS and PD. They might have done it to keep more cops on duty, but with more cops on duty, and nothing for them to do because players don't want to do illegal, there doesn't bring any benefit for anyone. Yes I know there maybe enough for the cops to do with other things going around on the city, but there isn't going to lead to any big busts for the police and the RP that would come from something like that.

[Flori]

LSFD/LSPD paychecks are not about motivating them to be on duty, its about the whole economy server-wide. A cop or medic's paycheck needs to reflect quite a difference while doing an active job (and quite a hard and intense one), than that from an Unemployed citizen's paycheck. 

Illegal activities always kind of had a much higher profit than the people doing legal activities, hence people requested to have more legal jobs, and those came. 

I am pretty sure that the staff is continuously working on finding the right balance, and feedback is always good and necessary to work on this. IMO, all activities pay a fair amount of money for their time/effort. (global economy wise too)

For me, it all comes back to RPing... I understand the need to make money, hell we all need it, but at the end of the day, unless your character is a multimillionaire that needs those millions to be able to play their stories, this is what we are here for. I don't think we need millions in the bank to be able to have some fun RP. Stick to the job that YOUR CHARACTER would do... 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Flori said:

LSFD/LSPD paychecks are not about motivating them to be on duty, its about the whole economy server-wide. A cop or medic's paycheck needs to reflect quite a difference while doing an active job (and quite a hard and intense one), than that from an Unemployed citizen's paycheck. 

Illegal activities always kind of had a much higher profit than the people doing legal activities, hence people requested to have more legal jobs, and those came. 

I am pretty sure that the staff is continuously working on finding the right balance, and feedback is always good and necessary to work on this. IMO, all activities pay a fair amount of money for their time/effort. (global economy wise too)

For me, it all comes back to RPing... I understand the need to make money, hell we all need it, but at the end of the day, unless your character is a multimillionaire that needs those millions to be able to play their stories, this is what we are here for. I don't think we need millions in the bank to be able to have some fun RP. Stick to the job that YOUR CHARACTER would do... 

For me, the post had more to do with meth cooking then anything. Whilst I would like to see an increase for weed, it has the same amount of effort as gold requires so I suppose from that stance, it might not require a rebalance.

 

The meth cooking requires a lot more going in, and whilst two trips can cover the cost of the van, that is quite a period of time cooking, (thus meaning lost time RPing) and the effort for that seems like it should be higher. Another thought to go with the meth is the cheap ability for the cops to use the informer to find people cooking. I think for definite that needs some work. Most of the cops on the server come to the most obscure areas when you are cooking, if you are good at finding good spots, and just turn up with the saying "we have had some disturbance calls" which in character makes no sense and just feels like shit RP quite simply. No effort.

 

I would like to see the cops come to an area, analyse it, say you are cooking in an area with smoke stacks nearby, you wouldn't get a disturbance call for fire if that's what they are basing it off, I am not sure, but say "we have had some calls in the area by locals about illegal activities and we have come to investigate." This in character would show that the cops are putting some effort in instead of what I put previously.

 

I also would like to see the informer changed in a way to show a circle area on the map of where the cooking might be, not a dot or whatever it shows right now. Just seems very easy for the cops to come by and catch by using something cheap like the informer.

 

I understand that it's about server-wide economy, and that obviously we don't need to be multimillionaires, but like I said, for the amount of effort that goes in, it seems like it should reward more than most other jobs, and if you get caught, say by the changes I said with regards to the informer, at least if the cops put the effort in and make a good reason for why they are there, you can make some good RP out of it which is good for both sides.

 

I must admit, I have seen some good RP by the cops when caught with lots of goodies from the weed farm, but never have I had a good experience YET when caught with a meth van out.

 

 

[Thorgs]

12 minutes ago, JohnRichards said:

For me, the post had more to do with meth cooking then anything

Well there have been several forum post's on this matter! First to start off Meth is broken and not working like it was intended to do and I have stated this in every post dealing with this.

And second which I'm sure you know the RV is mobile so if you decide to stay in one place to do your illegal dealings then so be it.. Meth also pays 1 to 1 so its a lot more than others. They are working to try and fix it like it was before but things take time. If you dont know the background on the RV is that the more ppl you had in the RV the faster it cooked by +1 to each person you had in there thats where the problem is right now.

[Kota]

I swear the informant is borderline useless for us police officers. I have dropped like over a 100k into it with maybe two hits. Yet meth cookers can legit move the operation as much as they want to throw off the informant "IF" it gets a hit that is. Like honestly meth has the least amount of risk of any drug imo due to the mobility factor. 

[Kilo]

6 hours ago, KotaJon91 said:

I swear the informant is borderline useless for us police officers. I have dropped like over a 100k into it with maybe two hits. Yet meth cookers can legit move the operation as much as they want to throw off the informant "IF" it gets a hit that is. Like honestly meth has the least amount of risk of any drug imo due to the mobility factor. 

O i did not know you had to bribe the informant, how much is it per bribe?

[Anton]

4k every time , even if he has no info

[AtomicGinger]

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You can actually make more money per run with weed than gold. Why? Because the weed processor is literally right down the road from the farm. What does this mean? You can fill a vehicle and your inventory full of the Mary Jane, run and process it, then come right back and fill your inventory again. Doing this maximizes your profit margin. If you were to try this with gold, it would take MUCH longer to do to make a decent profit because of the drive time from the gold farm to the gold processor. So saying you make nearly the same amount of money doing weed and/or gold is completely false.

[Merr Khan]

Well going back and fourth from the farm to possessor to keep getting more weed before selling what you had, or cooking meth simply cause its pays the most per/unit is called Powergaming (or power gaming) is a style of interacting with games or game-like systems, particularly video games, boardgames, and role-playing games, with the aim of maximising progress towards a specific goal, to the exclusion of other considerations such as storytelling, atmosphere and camaraderie.

@Flori Said it right, this is an RP server. It doesn't cost much to be able to RP with other people. Grinding endless money is for GTA online..... I don't care what kind of car you drive or what type of cardboard house you live in, if your RP is good that's all that matters. A $300 car can out-run cops with a skilled driver, so there is no reason to have to buy a $500k car that is slower.

I almost stopped playing after 200/hrs when i was grinding money all day for no reason. It was an endless boring road. I finally stopped and started spending that money on RP. Like tipping a taxi driver $20k while drunk, Or (fake) buying and selling cars at the dealership lost about $75k on that one, but it was fun... Now 600/hrs in this game it is fun for me since i don't give a shit about money. I find myself using my $250 bike more and more. Cause why not, i cant get a speeding ticket on it anywhere, And it can hold a much as a car. 

So in short, Stop caring about money and start caring about RP.      

[AtomicGinger]

1 hour ago, Merr Kahn said:

Well going back and fourth from the farm to possessor to keep getting more weed before selling what you had, or cooking meth simply cause its pays the most per/unit is called Powergaming (or power gaming) is a style of interacting with games or game-like systems, particularly video games, boardgames, and role-playing games, with the aim of maximising progress towards a specific goal, to the exclusion of other considerations such as storytelling, atmosphere and camaraderie.

@Flori Said it right, this is an RP server. It doesn't cost much to be able to RP with other people. Grinding endless money is for GTA online..... I don't care what kind of car you drive or what type of cardboard house you live in, if your RP is good that's all that matters. A $300 car can out-run cops with a skilled driver, so there is no reason to have to buy a $500k car that is slower.

I almost stopped playing after 200/hrs when i was grinding money all day for no reason. It was an endless boring road. I finally stopped and started spending that money on RP. Like tipping a taxi driver $20k while drunk, Or (fake) buying and selling cars at the dealership lost about $75k on that one, but it was fun... Now 600/hrs in this game it is fun for me since i don't give a shit about money. I find myself using my $250 bike more and more. Cause why not, i cant get a speeding ticket on it anywhere, And it can hold a much as a car. 

So in short, Stop caring about money and start caring about RP.      

While I do agree with you, I do argue that it isn't unrealistic for someone to process weed (rolling joints) and having more space to go get more marijuana. Powergaming means different things to different people. I was in a server where powergaming was doing something like walking up to someone and saying "I'm tying your arms behind your back, taking your phone and gun, and taping your mouth shut while blindfolding you." Other servers may follow the definition you mentioned. I was merely debunking people claiming that you make about the same amount of money doing gold and weed. 

This IS an RP server and it does bother me when all some people seem to care about is how to get rich quick. I have a goal of buying an airplane which is 1 Mil a pop. I have a long way to go but I'm not worried about how long it's going to take me to get there. I put RP before money grinding. Unless I get a group of folks together to RP out a money making scheme.

Edited December 9, 2017 by AtomicGinger

[skillzNthrillz]

My feedback and opinion on the server so far..
I have been playing on the server for a little over a week now.
 

The server is a lot of fun, and it has some great people on it.
In my time so far I have hunted, I've sold fish, gold, peaches, weed, meth and more. I've robbed a store, and I've RP'd with a bunch of EMS and police.
My only issue with the server is the following:

The money civilians earn for illegal activities seems WAY unbalanced. The low quality fish sells for as much as one Weed. There's just no payoff for the risk of running drugs. Weed, Meth, and robbing stores should all pay out at least 3x what legal money does IMO. It's pretty tough to get away with gathering it all, processing it all, and then selling it all. You're more than likely to come across the police while you're doing all this, and it also takes quite a long time to complete all 3 steps. Not only that but when you get busted you lose money, you lose guns and more. You can lose your vehicles and licences too. AND not only all that but you'll have to spend time not playing the game because you have to stand in jail. Why would anybody try to sell drugs when fishing makes way faster money with no risk of losing all that? I've currently stalled out on risking everything to sell drugs and I've just been grinding fishing and hunting when I break from fishing. But it's become mostly boring for me. I hope something changes here.

[AtomicGinger]

46 minutes ago, skillzNthrillz said:

My feedback and opinion on the server so far..
I have been playing on the server for a little over a week now.
 

The server is a lot of fun, and it has some great people on it.
In my time so far I have hunted, I've sold fish, gold, peaches, weed, meth and more. I've robbed a store, and I've RP'd with a bunch of EMS and police.
My only issue with the server is the following:

The money civilians earn for illegal activities seems WAY unbalanced. The low quality fish sells for as much as one Weed. There's just no payoff for the risk of running drugs. Weed, Meth, and robbing stores should all pay out at least 3x what legal money does IMO. It's pretty tough to get away with gathering it all, processing it all, and then selling it all. You're more than likely to come across the police while you're doing all this, and it also takes quite a long time to complete all 3 steps. Not only that but when you get busted you lose money, you lose guns and more. You can lose your vehicles and licences too. AND not only all that but you'll have to spend time not playing the game because you have to stand in jail. Why would anybody try to sell drugs when fishing makes way faster money with no risk of losing all that? I've currently stalled out on risking everything to sell drugs and I've just been grinding fishing and hunting when I break from fishing. But it's become mostly boring for me. I hope something changes here.

Just ran a test for myself. In the time it took me to fill my inventory (not including my cars) with fish and selling it, I could've done a whole entire weed run, with my personal AND vehicle's inventory full. At it's core, selling fish "makes more" per unit than weed. But you can make way more money in less time doing weed. 

To fill my personal inventory with fish, it took roughly 25 minutes. That was hitting the "fish" button as soon as I caught a fish. Of course, fishing is about chance and you'll likely catch more low quality than the others. For that run I made around 8k. Literally in that time I could've filled my entire car and inventory with processed weed and made around 18-20k.

[Thorgs]

^^^^^ To the above post he's not incorrect ALL of these have been tested timed just to see what X makes of course with Illegal's you have the RISK factor involved there are many options to make legal money there is Nothing that will get you rich fast here depending on what your goal is you have to put the time in thats really all there is to it. You just have to be creative on how you go about it if your doing illegal stuff otherwise roll the dice and see what happens. I'm sure there are more jobs to come in future patches but no matter what comes out you still have to put in what you wanna get out so Johnny assessment is correct it has been tested and not just by him... My two cents 

Edited December 11, 2017 by Thorgs

[SneakyAzWhat]

I'd agree *at my last assessment" that some adjustments needed to be made with economy things. Creating an economy from scratch is challenging because you can never gauge how people will do activities, how often, where the criminal risk floats to (popular area to rob and kill others). That has to be balanced vs housing, guns, licensing, vehicles and store items to a lesser degree. I was working on a big update to server wide economy changes to make a more balanced and healthy play style. I shared the information with @speed and will get with him this weekend to see if he wants changes and explain the work that was previously done.

 

TLDR: I think some small adjustments can be made to create better balance across vehicles, items and income/hour for each job.

[skillzNthrillz]

@AtomicGinger those numbers seem way off to me. I'll record myself doing the same comparison and post the results here. That will be a 'later this week' thing. I'll record using OBS with timer overlay.

Your assessment also doesn't cover things like:
-Abandoning the process due to police presence
-Higher chance of getting robbed
-Criminal record
-Time lost due to arrests/jail
-Money confiscated
-Vehicle confiscated
-Gun/License confiscated

You can spend months saving up for a vehicle and have it taken away in one bust.

[AtomicGinger]

You are correct. I did my assessment in a very sterile environment. But it IS possible to do a full weed run without getting caught. And frankly getting caught is half the fun. If I'm doing weed and I get pulled over, do I know I'm going to lose money? Yes. Do I know I may even lose my car? Yes. Those are some of the negatives. But what is the biggest positive to this? Getting an interaction with another player and roleplaying a scenario. Playing on any server shouldn't be about getting fat stacks.(Granted you could rp a character who is all about making money.) It should be about roleplaying. If I lose money and time due to getting involved in some cop rp i'm completely ok with that. 

[skillzNthrillz]

I would agree, at the end of the day I am playing on the server for the RP interaction with both fellow civilians and police. However, when not dealing with the police I am trying to raise money so I can do new things, and buy new vehicles. Right now the only way to really accumulate enough funds to buy something nice is to grind fishing or gold or something like that. Standing there grinding fishing or gold all night is just not fun, it's insanely boring.

Like you noted, getting pulled over while doing illegals can be fun, because it's RP interaction. But it can take all the fun out of it when you lose a months worth of grinding in one traffic stop.

Not only that, but like somebody else pointed out above, I am not doing anything illegal right now because it's not worth the risk. This results in me doing nothing illegal and having virtually zero RP with the police. If the reward was better compared to the risk, we would have an increase in civilian/police interaction.

And what is the con to us making more money from selling drugs? The civilians have too much money? It's still hard to get away with selling drugs, and I don't see a problem with us having a little more money in our pocket anyway. If somebody has fat stacks it just means they play a lot and are an active member of the badlands community.

 

(thank you for your honest/mature reply btw, I'm glad we can keep the discussion here civil and open minded)