Ramming into Cars while in a cops chase.

[Alex White/Grandma Elsie]

Hey everyone, earlier I been in a situation that explains why I am writing this, so lets being.

 

Let's think about this, cops normally have this tactic to put you inside a box with their cars where you are stuck inside of it with no way to escape.

Now usually you can use these if you see an opening:

 

A. Run on foot and eventually get caught.

 

B. Try to find a small gap which sometimes happens yes. 

 

But when there is no A or B you are stuck with:

C. Which is ramming into the cops cars.

 

If you don't use C, well shit too bad for you, you gonna have to step out of the car and put your hands up, this sounds anti-climatic when you are being chased by cops, and sometimes this will go against your character personality to just give up.

 

Now one would say why to go with C. well it's because of the situation you in, specifically in a cops chase. 

The VDM rule should only apply to people being silly/stupid/dumb/angry when they ram into other cars for the sake of having fun.

Now if we gonna use an IRL example: I can link different gifs or videos that showcases "criminals" ramming into cops cars or people, but this is not the point I guess.

 

The point here is it about the situation you in that should make it valid to ram into cars.

 

Thanks for reading, and I hope this sounds fair.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2017 by Fox White

[TiLLeR]

The rule is to avoid the silliness of bumper cars that use to be cop chases 24/7 when the server was first started.  It was 20 minute chases just ramming each other around.  Cops can pit or rolling barricade but should not be doing ramming beyond boxing someone in.  As a cop you know the majority of chases don't end in the cops favor.  The 10% of the time you get boxed in, I think it's reasonable that you are just caught.

[Thorgs]

58 minutes ago, TiLLeR said:

The 10% of the time you get boxed in, I think it's reasonable that you are just caught.

 

6 hours ago, Alexandra White/Grandma said:

Try to find a small gap which sometimes happens yes

As TiLLeR states above your just caught and in IRL you talk about above if you tried to ram your way out in IRL cops most certainly would shoot you dead!

[Alex White/Grandma Elsie]

6 hours ago, TiLLeR said:

The rule is to avoid the silliness of bumper cars that use to be cop chases 24/7 when the server was first started.  It was 20 minute chases just ramming each other around.  Cops can pit or rolling barricade but should not be doing ramming beyond boxing someone in.  As a cop you know the majority of chases don't end in the cops favor.  The 10% of the time you get boxed in, I think it's reasonable that you are just caught.

It is not about being caught, it was about me getting a warning from the "government" for trying to escape that box. When I had no choice out.

[Alex White/Grandma Elsie]

5 hours ago, Thorgs said:

 

As TiLLeR states above your just caught and in IRL you talk about above if you tried to ram your way out in IRL cops most certainly would shoot you dead!

Shoot you dead for ramming into their cars and not killing any soul? This sounds like cops brutality  

[TiLLeR]

Quote

It is not about being caught, it was about me getting a warning from the "government" for trying to escape that box. When I had no choice out.

That was my point.  You didn't have a choice.  It was time to give up - you got caught.  That is where the RP begins which is the whole point of the server.

[Thorgs]

5 hours ago, Alexandra White/Grandma said:

Shoot you dead for ramming into their cars and not killing any soul? This sounds like cops brutality  

 

5 hours ago, Alexandra White/Grandma said:

It is not about being caught, it was about me getting a warning from the "government" for trying to escape that box. When I had no choice out.

Well lets start with your wanting a "WARNING" your warning was the minute the Police turned on there light's and siren I'm sure this stands in ALL countries when those come on it means pull over and stop when you refuse too that when the chase is on! I've been involved chasing you and you create a danger to ALL when a high speed chase breaks out! when a chase like that happens and your boxed in your pretty much caught but thats just it most in the game want to try and ram to escape and like I said in IRL if cops have you boxed in they will certainly be out there car with Guns Drawn if you move to ram them they most certainly open fire cause at that point there lives are in danger and they will want to end any further pursuit or potential loss of civilian lives . I try when possible over the loud speaker to tell you to pull over doesn't always happen but like I said light's and siren tell you to pull over your refusal to do this you now accept all risk that may happen afterwards sometimes peacefully sometimes deadly thats life. 

Edited December 19, 2017 by Thorgs

[Kota]

Tbh I think if you box yourself in like that you should just give up. To be blunt you had a blown tire and your engine was godlike taking multiple hits that should have left it destroyed and the fact we finally had you cornered and you rammed out like that was unfair to us officers. Tbh it sounds like you just didn't want to accept the fact that you got caught. And if the officer whose car you rammed was out of his vehicle I personally would have used lethal force to stop you. To answer your question tho... I think there is a time that ramming out could have been acceptable but backing up and doing it a few times to ensure you get away is unrealistic imo and unfair. 

[Merr Khan]

I agree with you White on the aspect of the hard set rules such as this one. These rules are in place so that asshats can be banned. but having these rules set in stone with no wiggle room for RP, advanced scenarios, and just plan old D-sync is wrong. If i am wanted for murder, robbery, kidnapping, shooting at cops and so on, is it reasonable to assume that i would fight to the death vs giving up and going to jail for the rest of my life? Yes, just because there is a server max time limit on prison doesn't mean that we have to act like there is as a criminal (that would be meta). If i have done enough crime to believe i would be getting the death sentence what is wrong with RP'ing it out as so, and fighting with the cops by any means necessary, car, bat, gun, god dam shoe, rock, or whatever, in attempts to flee from life in incarceration?   

A box in maneuver doesn't really work in GTA, since any car can tap another car and push it 5 feet or more. IRL a boxed in car is pinned and can't really move. 

Also if a cop on foot jumps in front of a fleeing car..... that is not VDM..... it is attempted suicide by said officer, and said officer needs an mental evaluation before going back on duty. 

I always assumed this rule about ramming cop cars applied to people that were not directly involved in the chase..... so the people who see a chase and try to jump in to bash the cop cars, for the fun of it, are the ones who should be getting banned. That's fine... but the fleeing suspect should not be banned for smashing into a cop car. It happens IRL and is proper RP for a fleeing criminal that is facing serious felony charges.

So if someone does it for a 10 mph speeding ticket, or cause they ran a red light... eh... maybe a warning then cause they had no proper RP to do so. Also you would have to catch them, maybe they had a trunk load of drugs which IMO would grant proper RP to Flee by any means necessary. Simple banning them w/out knowing why they did it is wrong.    

Watch this around 1:45  (there are 100's like this i can post)

 

Then again White, (and your not the only one who does it) when you total your car multiple times in a cop chase and jump it off 100+ foot cliff and keep driving because GTA mechanics allow it is Fail RP, GTA online mode, IMO. Your organs would look like they went through a blender from the impact force of you landed you car from more then 50+ feet, or smashed into a wall going 60+mph with no seat belt..... the Comet is broken as fuck mechanics wise (rear Eng.) and you need to stop using it to run from cops, or when you crash and your front end is totaled you need to get out and run on foot.  

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

These hard set rules apply to certain words too, This is un-reasonable. IMO yes, Foul, hateful, and derogatory racist speech should be grounds for a perm ban - no appeal. However there shouldn't be any hard set words on this list, it should be based on context. I have heard plenty of people use words like the "N" word. Such as "whats up my N*****", or "sheet, these N***** are bitches". It is also a word used by the locals down on grove street a lot , as well as being on the in game radio on 2 dif channels multiple songs. How can in game content get you banned? How can i sing along (in character) if i can get banned for doing it. This is ridiculous and needs to change. As long as it is in proper context and not used derogatorily then there should be no issue. So what im trying to say here is it shouldn't be the words that gets you banned it should be the context in which you use them.  

Also we have people on this server who speak different languages, I have heard up to 4 now commonly used. (English, Russian, Spanish, little bit Arabic) Why do they get a free pass on using derogatory context? Just case they are in a dif language? I know about 4 phrases in Arabic that would get my shot in some countries, should i start using them in game? Answer is NO. So if the rule was based on context, and not hard set words, then you could warn/ban them for what they are saying too.    

[Alex White/Grandma Elsie]

2 hours ago, TiLLeR said:

That was my point.  You didn't have a choice.  It was time to give up - you got caught.  That is where the RP begins which is the whole point of the server.

You have to know, I am not speaking about COPS warning like "STOP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUM" I am talking about the real OOC government warning, which I got a talk from a higher up about.

[Alex White/Grandma Elsie]

 

1 hour ago, Thorgs said:

 

Well lets start with your wanting a "WARNING" your warning was the minute the Police turned on there light's and siren I'm sure this stands in ALL countries when those come on it means pull over and stop when you refuse too that when the chase is on! I've been involved chasing you and you create a danger to ALL when a high speed chase breaks out! when a chase like that happens and your boxed in your pretty much caught but thats just it most in the game want to try and ram to escape and like I said in IRL if cops have you boxed in they will certainly be out there car with Guns Drawn if you move to ram them they most certainly open fire cause at that point there lives are in danger and they will want to end any further pursuit or potential loss of civilian lives . I try when possible over the loud speaker to tell you to pull over doesn't always happen but like I said light's and siren tell you to pull over your refusal to do this you now accept all risk that may happen afterwards sometimes peacefully sometimes deadly thats life. 

 

Just now, Alexandra White/Grandma said:

You have to know, I am not speaking about COPS warning like "STOP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUM" I am talking about the real OOC government warning, which I got a talk from a higher up about.

[Alex White/Grandma Elsie]

25 minutes ago, Merr Kahn said:

I agree with you White on the aspect of the hard set rules such as this one. These rules are in place so that asshats can be banned. but having these rules set in stone with no wiggle room for RP, advanced scenarios, and just plan old D-sync is wrong. If i am wanted for murder, robbery, kidnapping, shooting at cops and so on, is it reasonable to assume that i would fight to the death vs giving up and going to jail for the rest of my life? Yes, just because there is a server max time limit on prison doesn't mean that we have to act like there is as a criminal (that would be meta). If i have done enough crime to believe i would be getting the death sentence what is wrong with RP'ing it out as so, and fighting with the cops by any means necessary, car, bat, gun, god dam shoe, rock, or whatever, in attempts to flee from life in incarceration?   

A box in maneuver doesn't really work in GTA, since any car can tap another car and push it 5 feet or more. IRL a boxed in car is pinned and can't really move. 

Also if a cop on foot jumps in front of a fleeing car..... that is not VDM..... it is attempted suicide by said officer, and said officer needs an mental evaluation before going back on duty. 

I always assumed this rule about ramming cop cars applied to people that were not directly involved in the chase..... so the people who see a chase and try to jump in to bash the cop cars, for the fun of it, are the ones who should be getting banned. That's fine... but the fleeing suspect should not be banned for smashing into a cop car. It happens IRL and is proper RP for a fleeing criminal that is facing serious felony charges.

So if someone does it for a 10 mph speeding ticket, or cause they ran a red light... eh... maybe a warning then cause they had no proper RP to do so. Also you would have to catch them, maybe they had a trunk load of drugs which IMO would grant proper RP to Flee by any means necessary. Simple banning them w/out knowing why they did it is wrong.    

Watch this around 1:45  (there are 100's like this i can post)

 

Then again White, (and your not the only one who does it) when you total your car multiple times in a cop chase and jump it off 100+ foot cliff and keep driving because GTA mechanics allow it is Fail RP, GTA online mode, IMO. Your organs would look like they went through a blender from the impact force of you landed you car from more then 50+ feet, or smashed into a wall going 60+mph with no seat belt..... the Comet is broken as fuck mechanics wise (rear Eng.) and you need to stop using it to run from cops, or when you crash and your front end is totaled you need to get out and run on foot.  

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

These hard set rules apply to certain words too, This is un-reasonable. IMO yes, Foul, hateful, and derogatory racist speech should be grounds for a perm ban - no appeal. However there shouldn't be any hard set words on this list, it should be based on context. I have heard plenty of people use words like the "N" word. Such as "whats up my N*****", or "sheet, these N***** are bitches". It is also a word used by the locals down on grove street a lot , as well as being on the in game radio on 2 dif channels multiple songs. How can in game content get you banned? How can i sing along (in character) if i can get banned for doing it. This is ridiculous and needs to change. As long as it is in proper context and not used derogatorily then there should be no issue. So what im trying to say here is it shouldn't be the words that gets you banned it should be the context in which you use them.  

Also we have people on this server who speak different languages, I have heard up to 4 now commonly used. (English, Russian, Spanish, little bit Arabic) Why do they get a free pass on using derogatory context? Just case they are in a dif language? I know about 4 phrases in Arabic that would get my shot in some countries, should i start using them in game? Answer is NO. So if the rule was based on context, and not hard set words, then you could warn/ban them for what they are saying too.    

Thanks for agreeing with me on stuff I talked about, what I don't agree with is you telling me to stop using the Comet in cops chasing, you do know there are few other cars that behave and work like the Comet?

Are you gonna say I should stop using those too.

And about the car being totaled from the front, you think in mid of cops chase I would think "Oh yeah my car is fucked up in the front, I should stop right now and start running"... It's just weird to me.

All the other points are valid, I wish we had a seatbelt trust me, and about the Fail RP thing I can name a lot of things we do in BadlandsRP that count as normal RP:

1. Us sending criminals magically to prison because we are too lazy to drive them there.

2. Cuffing people hands makes people not able to use their feet.

3. Medics getting up people who died from bullets but they still are alive.

The point here that there is a lot of stuff that should count as FailRP as you said, but guess what "GTA mechanics" are in play.

 

[Merr Khan]

1 minute ago, Alexandra White/Grandma said:

And about the car being totaled from the front, you think in mid of cops chase I would think "Oh yeah my car is fucked up in the front, I should stop right now and start running"... It's just weird to me.

No, what i mean is there is an un-realistic amount of dmg that the comet and other rear eng cars can take and still keep running its a broken game mechanic. and since this is RP its suppose to be more like IRL and not like GTA online. Also its not just an eng that stops a car, drive a FORD with more then 100k miles you'll know what i mean. 

[Alex White/Grandma Elsie]

5 minutes ago, Merr Kahn said:

No, what i mean is there is an un-realistic amount of dmg that the comet and other rear eng cars can take and still keep running its a broken game mechanic. and since this is RP its suppose to be more like IRL and not like GTA online. Also its not just an eng that stops a car, drive a FORD with more then 100k miles you'll know what i mean. 

Yeah, I do understand what you mean.

[Anton]

95% of all cars have the radiator of the engine cooling system in the front of the car. If you crash your car's front you will damage the cooling system , it will leak hot cooling fluid and steam all over the place. You keep going like that , your engine will overheat. Since the pistons are made of aluminium and the cylinders are a harder metal, they expand in a different rate due to heat and as you can guess aluminium will expand faster, which means it will get stuck in the cylinder and your engine is dead at this point.

This concludes my "internal combustion engine for dummies" lecture

[Alex White/Grandma Elsie]

Just now, Muroko said:

95% of all cars have the radiator of the engine cooling system in the front of the car. If you crash your car's front you will damage the cooling system , it will leak hot cooling fluid and steam all over the place. You keep going like that , your engine will overheat. Since the pistons are made of aluminium and the cylinders are a harder metal, they expand in a different rate due to heat and as you can guess aluminium will expand faster, which means it will get stuck in the cylinder and your engine is dead at this point.

This concludes my "internal combustion engine for dummies" lecture

[Johan]

And just keep that in mind, you won't always "win" in RP and that's not what it's about. It's about having fun. 

I don't know what the situation was but let's say if you are boxed in with 2-3 cop cars, that's pretty much it. In that kind of situation I wouldn't start ramming those cars in front of and behind me to get some space even GTA mechanics allows it. I would give up and that's the time when you "lose". And if I did that for some wierd reason, I would expect the cops to shoot at me because that is definitely putting their lifes in danger.

[Alex White/Grandma Elsie]

4 minutes ago, Johan | ynzx_ said:

And just keep that in mind, you won't always "win" in RP and that's not what it's about. It's about having fun. 

I don't know what the situation was but let's say if you are boxed in with 2-3 cop cars, that's pretty much it. In that kind of situation I wouldn't start ramming those cars in front of and behind me to get some space even GTA mechanics allows it. I would give up and that's the time when you "lose". And if I did that for some wierd reason, I would expect the cops to shoot at me because that is definitely putting their lifes in danger.

I never said I wanted to always win, all I said after I got caught which was later on, I got approached by a higher-up telling me this is a warning about ramming into cops cars inside that box which is the so-called "VDM".

 

I play as a COP too, you know how many times I lose too and I tell myself I shouldn't win all the time?

 

So this is not about me winning or the cops winning.

I believe you misunderstood, and some of the others too who commented here.

Edited December 19, 2017 by Alexandra White/Grandma

[speed]

2 hours ago, Merr Kahn said:

Then again White, (and your not the only one who does it) when you total your car multiple times in a cop chase and jump it off 100+ foot cliff and keep driving because GTA mechanics allow it is Fail RP, GTA online mode, IMO. Your organs would look like they went through a blender from the impact force of you landed you car from more then 50+ feet, or smashed into a wall going 60+mph with no seat belt..... the Comet is broken as fuck mechanics wise (rear Eng.) and you need to stop using it to run from cops, or when you crash and your front end is totaled you need to get out and run on foot.  

This is the reason the rules are written the way they are. Not because we don't want players doing creative things to evade police, but because the GTA mechanics allow a great deal of abuse with very little punishment (hence the reason GTA Online is such a clusterfuck)

I would personally like to allow evading players to make light contact during pursuits (similar to boxing and PIT that police are allowed to do), but that opens up a whole lot of gray area in the VDM rules.

2 hours ago, Merr Kahn said:

These hard set rules apply to certain words too, This is un-reasonable. IMO yes, Foul, hateful, and derogatory racist speech should be grounds for a perm ban - no appeal. However there shouldn't be any hard set words on this list, it should be based on context. I have heard plenty of people use words like the "N" word. Such as "whats up my N*****", or "sheet, these N***** are bitches". It is also a word used by the locals down on grove street a lot , as well as being on the in game radio on 2 dif channels multiple songs. How can in game content get you banned? How can i sing along (in character) if i can get banned for doing it. This is ridiculous and needs to change. As long as it is in proper context and not used derogatorily then there should be no issue. So what im trying to say here is it shouldn't be the words that gets you banned it should be the context in which you use them.  

Also we have people on this server who speak different languages, I have heard up to 4 now commonly used. (English, Russian, Spanish, little bit Arabic) Why do they get a free pass on using derogatory context? Just case they are in a dif language? I know about 4 phrases in Arabic that would get my shot in some countries, should i start using them in game? Answer is NO. So if the rule was based on context, and not hard set words, then you could warn/ban them for what they are saying too.    

You would not be banned for singing along to a song on the in-game radio, and while you might be warned for a soft usage of the "N" word, you most likely would not be banned straight away unless you continue doing it or using the word in an offensive way.

We already take context into consideration before making decisions. If you look at the reporting format, half of the rules mention proper context as a requirement for the report, and the other half are time-based (where context doesn't really matter, ie: RDM).

Even in White's case, you can see that the context was used to give a warning rather than a ban, because again, while actions like White's may not have any malicious intent, allowing them would open up too much of a gray area.

[Merr Khan]

39 minutes ago, speed said:

You would not be banned for singing along to a song on the in-game radio, and while you might be warned for a soft usage of the "N" word, you most likely would not be banned straight away unless you continue doing it or using the word in an offensive way.

We already take context into consideration before making decisions. If you look at the reporting format, half of the rules mention proper context as a requirement for the report, and the other half are time-based (where context doesn't really matter, ie: RDM).

Even in White's case, you can see that the context was used to give a warning rather than a ban, because again, while actions like White's may not have any malicious intent, allowing them would open up too much of a gray area.

Glad you cleared that up.