something should change!

[Tomas García]

@Storrent In the moment you have info you can share it. But you made a valid point. Add info to the sign in command so the intention gets logged.

- So it could work like this. Sign into duty channel always empty

1. Someone types "!SignIn PD2" , so the command gets triggered and what is the player trying to do too, like be on duty as PD in server 2.
2. Then the bot does three things: Assigns role, copies the message and who send it with time stamp into an Admin only channel, and finally wipes the message to leave the channel clean.
3. Last thing would be "SingOff" when off duty, so the bot can take away role, copy it and log it like the other message before cleaning the channel again.

But once again, no system will be cheater free. Some might even go on duty just to give away the info with any 3rd party app or another server of discord.  This system sure would help with a bit with some of the meta tho. Another downside is that those players that were just going to connect to do some work and help out the city might not know which city to choose. You might call that meta but  I bet that saved the city many times from been without EMS. Or even a whole city full of cops and the other empty.

Last but not least. Many people stream while on duty, so people will use those too to cheat. Sometimes to kill a fly you need to disturb so much the ecosystem that is not worth it. So once again, hope that something can be implemented but let's not get too drastic about it because no matter how hard the measures are made, there will be some people able to cheat anyway.

[Alex frost]

44 minutes ago, Anton said:

still before you would sign in, you would have no idea how many are on duty already. maybe there are already at the limit that can be on duty

for this u would have to just sign in,if you realize there are to many officers on duty then you would just have to sign out,maybe you can even put down the reason for clocking out right after clocking in. (to many officers on duty) <-- that would be the reason. 

[Anton]

my only issue with hiding stuff is this : i mostly go on duty es EMT when there is noone else, to fill the gaps. i can't be bothered to sign in every 20 minutes to see if im needed

[Alex frost]

49 minutes ago, Anton said:

!signin, see there's too many, !signout, tell all my friends, they abuse the info, no way to prove it, back at page 1

here is the thing,if someone signs on duty,then clocks off right after (even if it is not full of officers) and continues to do this for the next week or so,at that point it is pretty clear what is prolly going on. 

[Anton]

there are sooo many ways to outsmart this system if you are creative... what i'm trying to say is that if someone has bad intention, this would be no more than a small inconvenience for them. but for the average Joe, it's more like a pain in the ass

[xEmbers-]

49 minutes ago, Anton said:

!signin, see there's too many, !signout, tell all my friends, they abuse the info, no way to prove it, back at page 1

You could definitely prove that someone signed in and signed out and know exactly who it was. Especially if you have a website, like Anton suggested, that is tracking the sign ons and offs. You can look at the timestamps of the sign ins and sign outs and if it was less than 30 minutes, you know that that person did not go on duty considering shifts are a minimum 30 minutes (At least for LSFD. I do not know about the PD).

 

45 minutes ago, Storrent said:

I wonder if there'd be a way to check if there are too many people signed in and not assign the role. Something like !signin cop 1 or !signin ems 2

You could have the website actively track how many people are clocked-in and if it is at the limit give the user trying to sign-in an error message saying that the "list is full" or "fully staffed at this time" or something like that. Also (and I do not know if this is a rule already or not, I assume it is... But..) you can require people to be in the discord if they are on-duty, that way whenever they are assigned to the on-duty role you (the person wanting to clock-in) can see how many people are in the role. The way to make THAT not be abused, is have the role non-specific to EMS/PD and just have it as a blanket "On Duty" role versus "On Duty EMS and On Duty PD" so people do not count how many on duty PD there are. That could still slightly be abused though because of late night/low population times.

 

57 minutes ago, Tomas García said:

@Anton I guess there are ways to work on that, but the thing is that if you sign on duty and server is full, no one will say you meta if you go !offDuty since that would make sense. If someone cheats in that situation then it would be way less times than before that. Since people would only cheat in those cases. Yet as I'm going to state there will be people that will cheat anyway as soon as they get the info, no matter the system. We can't put spyware into their PCs and phones, so as soon as they have the info they can share it if they are going to cheat.

Two facts:
 - Some people have a way to cheat they will always cheat. Other people who usually don't cheat tend to do it unconsciously once they have the info.
- Meta in itself, for odd that might sound to some, not always is bad. Meta can be used to balance a RP game. The bad meta is any that influences the outcome of the game towards a personal or friends gain.

So what @Alex frost said is mainly true. And anything that can be done to hide the on duty people info will be good. But all has downsides, and let's also keep those in mind.

I also have to agree with this statement. Some people metagame subconsciously and they can't help it, it happens. Those power/metagames aren't so bad normally and can be dealt with. I think the main focus is those that are actively seeking out the information before they go and do something. Those are the people that are "corrupt" inside the departments and need a talking to and/or removal from the whitelist.

[Alex frost]

3 minutes ago, Anton said:

there are sooo many ways to outsmart this system if you are creative... what i'm trying to say is that if someone has bad intention, this would be no more than a small inconvenience for them. but for the average Joe, it's more like a pain in the ass

you just answered your own question,if you make it more difficult for people to use this info it will help cut down the the problem,it is better than doing nothing at all. im not saying it will fix the problem 100% but at the very least something needs to be put it place to help prevent it from being so easy to do. and over time it may just discourage them from wanting to take the extra time to gain the information.   

[ImVexal]

Kind of like that idea of !signon/!signoff command for discord. We could have our rank roles EMS/LSPD (staff roles also) but upon execution of the command it assigns you the rank of "Duty" in which you can clock on and at this point the badlands bot is relaying this back to a log channel (Senior faction staff should have access to) 

 

1. This will see who clocks on and off and we could see who are the people who are viewing channels for META gaming reasons.

 

2. This will also combat people clocking in the duty channel before clocking on in game which is still an issue for PD. 

 

Hope this will work as it is an amazing idea @Anton

 

 

* Only issue looking at it now is people could clock on realise there are already at capacity and having to clock off which may be seen as looking to see who's on*

Edited September 16, 2018 by ImVexal

[xEmbers-]

2 minutes ago, ImVexal said:

Kind of like that idea of !signon/!signoff command for discord. We could have put rank roles EMS/LSPD but upon execution of the command it assigns you the rank of "Duty" in which you can clock on and at this point the badlands bot is relaying this back to a log channel (Senior faction staff should have access to) 

 

1. This will see who clocks on and off and we could see who are the people who are viewing channels for META gaming reasons.

 

2. This will also combat people clocking in the duty channel before clocking on in game which is still an issue for PD. 

 

Hope this will work as it is an amazing idea @Anton

Yep yep. Exactly. Like I said, the website will tell exactly who clocked-in and at what time and will also help alleviate the stress of not knowing if there is enough EMS/PD online or not.

Edited September 16, 2018 by xEmbers-

[Johan]

There has been great ideas to solve this problem, but tbh only way to solve this completely is to un-whitelist everyone who abuses it...

It is just so sad to see that whitelisted (aka trusted) persons abuse this... But the sad truth is, only way to make everything fun and fair for everyone is behind the screen. Probably even un-whitelisting people who abuse that won't fix it..

[ImVexal]

20 minutes ago, Johan said:

There has been great ideas to solve this problem, but tbh only way to solve this completely is to un-whitelist everyone who abuses it...

It is just so sad to see that whitelisted (aka trusted) persons abuse this... But the sad truth is, only way to make everything fun and fair for everyone is behind the screen. Probably even un-whitelisting people who abuse that won't fix it..

Sure that can easily be done! We need to find them first and a log system is the way to go.

[MAGPIE]

One of my point's in the character slot's thread, I still think this will not stop people meta...as I've said there's a click between cops/crims. I totally agree with the O.P above A+

MAGS

[Alexia Kade]

4 hours ago, Alex frost said:

i am NOT making assumptions i have physically heard with my own ears people talking about how many officers are on duty and if it is safe to go cook drugs. either way this was not made to start arguments,this is just simply my opinion,and i would like to see if others feel the same.  

Personally, if I plan on doing something illegal, yes, I will ask around to get the opinion of friends if they THINK its too hot or not. I play it smart, I go around the map, checking if there is cops, where they are, how many. So its easy to know how much cops there is if you observe long enough, trust me. Gathering info and observing is the key there, not metagaming.

By that I mean, being accused of metagaming because I say "oh yeah there is 4 cops on" because I saw 1 fuel in Sandy, 2 on a scene at Legion and 1 doing radar on the highway, would upsets me in total honesty. 

 

With that being said, unless you can prove it, don't make assumptions. If you can proove it, report it.

Edited September 16, 2018 by Alexia Kade

[xEmbers-]

8 minutes ago, Alexia Kade said:

Personally, if I plan on doing something illegal, yes, I will ask around to get the opinion of friends if they THINK its too hot or not. I play it smart, I go around the map, checking if there is cops, where they are, how many. So its easy to know how much cops there is if you observe long enough, trust me. Gathering info and observing is the key there, not metagaming.

By that I mean, being accused of metagaming because I say "oh yeah there is 4 cops on" because I saw 1 fuel in Sandy, 2 on a scene at Legion and 1 doing radar on the highway, would upsets me in total honesty. 

 

With that being said, unless you can prove it, don't make assumptions. If you can proove it, report it.

That is also another thing that a lot of people do is scout out the information themselves via in-game mechanics. Whether it be driving around, getting the information from someone that has been online for a few hours or so, maybe seen a few cops around and etc. That is one thing that can cause a little bit of confusion on how they know the information, yes. But doesn't pertain to, "Hey, I have a hunch of Johnny and Suzy Q metagaming" and putting a watch in effect for it or just trying to put an update out there in general to help stop metagaming.

[Coach]

Here's an idea: always assume there is cops around, just like real life. The best part about selling drugs is hiding and running from cops anyway.

[Alex frost]

35 minutes ago, Alexia Kade said:

Personally, if I plan on doing something illegal, yes, I will ask around to get the opinion of friends if they THINK its too hot or not. I play it smart, I go around the map, checking if there is cops, where they are, how many. So its easy to know how much cops there is if you observe long enough, trust me. Gathering info and observing is the key there, not metagaming.

By that I mean, being accused of metagaming because I say "oh yeah there is 4 cops on" because I saw 1 fuel in Sandy, 2 on a scene at Legion and 1 doing radar on the highway, would upsets me in total honesty. 

 

With that being said, unless you can prove it, don't make assumptions. If you can proove it, report it.

again this post is not to make arguments,this is simply just a feed back and suggestions,this is not an attack on anyone specific,and like i have stated before,i am not making an assumption or accusing anyone,like i stated i know for a fact some off duty officer use the discord to find out if there are police on and how many,point being it just needs to stop,it is not fair gameplay. and im not going to post the evidence that i have of it here. this post was to come up with idea of how to best fix this problem,or make it better.

[speed]

I have a solution for this, will be added in the next day or so.

Going to close the discussion at this time.