Reanimation

[Reuben ~ Reckonity]

I've definitely held my opinion back but i'm pretty sure we can come to a compromise when it comes to this topic, now I agree with both @TiLLeR when he says it's pretty realistic as no matter what people die and that's expected. Now I agree with @Serena and @Dashfere with the fact of my character always trying to help as he's someone that wouldn't hesitate to help someone in need. 

Now what I propose is we could potentially tweak the situation on how we see other stuff as Officers, we solely base our situations on RP so what's the problem with helping them if the RP is great. We do this and it's been brought up numerous times so maybe if the RP is good we could give them a break and help them out (when EMS aren't on of course) for example, we see someone being shot and he's RP'ing that he's gasping for air and talking like he's genuinely been shot, that's something that I would consider brilliant RP and I don't see the problem with helping him and rewarding him with that situation. 

This is just my response on the matter, please quote anything you have wrong with this and we can have a civil debate

[Serena]

I think a compromise of being able to attempt to help with a chance of said help not being enough, is a nice compromise. However that's applied could be up for debate but I personally really like the idea.

[Reuben ~ Reckonity]

1 minute ago, Serena said:

I think a compromise of being able to attempt to help with a chance of said help not being enough, is a nice compromise. However that's applied could be up for debate but I personally really like the idea.

Yeah I know we'll never go back to the idea of us reviving when no EMS are on so at least with this we could have a situation were it's possible at least. 

[Serena]

Just now, Reckonity said:

Yeah I know we'll never go back to the idea of us reviving when no EMS are on so at least with this we could have a situation were it's possible at least. 

In this way at least we could RP that we truly are not medically trained and will try our best to help, but might not be able to. Would hopefully help with the immersion?

[TiLLeR]

The problem is @Reckonity is that I don't think that will satisfy people.  B/C as soon as we start reviving a % of people then people will complain that it's not everyone.  I don't think that this is as much a problem of enhancing RP... it's about alleviating the guilt of watching someone die (which should not be your guilt and is still RP).  

[Reuben ~ Reckonity]

Just now, Serena said:

In this way at least we could RP that we truly are not medically trained and will try our best to help, but might not be able to. Would hopefully help with the immersion?

I mean most definitely, bare in mind Police Officers know basic treatments but something like broken legs would be out of our area of expertise. Other than that I see what you're saying to definitely help.

[TiLLeR]

There are a lot of medics, ff's and  police here.  Violence leads to death sometimes.  On badlands I'd argue that it's less than 5% of the time - probably similar to IRL.   Everyone lives is not immersion.  It's' not realistic and eliminates any sense of risk on the server.

[Reuben ~ Reckonity]

Just now, TiLLeR said:

The problem is @Reckonity is that I don't think that will satisfy people.  B/C as soon as we start reviving a % of people then people will complain that it's not everyone.  I don't think that this is as much a problem of enhancing RP... it's about alleviating the guilt of watching someone die (which should not be your guilt and is still RP).  

Most definitely, the guilt shouldn't be ours but it always happens, like you said people die and it affects the people around as it's someone losing a life, something in a situation of RP it would take a toll with us, I believe this is why this was created so I think at least trying it wouldn't be too much of an issue, obviously people abusing it would be a situation of reporting which I won't get into as I don't want to get ahead of myself. 

Addressing the % of people who will complain, maybe making it for certain charges, for example... Attempted murder and other things that would be on the same situation as this charge.

[Serena]

2 minutes ago, TiLLeR said:

There are a lot of medics, ff's and ex police here.  Violence leads to death sometimes.  On badlands I'd argue that it's less than 5% of the time - probably similar to IRL.   Everyone lives is not immersion.  It's' not realistic and eliminates any sense of risk on the server.

I agree, but I don't think that's really because PD can/cannot help and more about the mechanics of how an injury works? Like if someone fell off Legion building, EMS should not be able to help that. That's not realistic. They should be #dead, imo. PD being able to help someone on the road is more realistic than the kind of revivals we see that EMS can treat...

Edited November 6, 2018 by Serena

[Gasman]

Well I think that settles it for me. The more I muse over it, the more I see @TiLLeR's point and can wrap my head around the logic. It feels bad when you can't help innocent people, but again people don't always live happily ever after. Bad things happen, and we need to roll with the punches. Sometimes, especially on PD, you will face situations where you are completely helpless. This is unsettling, but also a part of life.

As many previous PD meetings have emphasized, we can't win all the time.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Gasman

[TiLLeR]

7 minutes ago, Serena said:

I agree, but I don't think that's really because PD can/cannot help and more about the mechanics of how an injury works? Like if someone fell off Legion building, EMS should not be able to help that. That's not realistic. They should be #dead, imo. PD being able to help someone on the road is more realistic than the kind of revivals we see that EMS can treat...

Yes the challenge is that our health system is linear.  You get injured (no matter how) and you go into a dying state and then after x time you die.  This happens from being punched in the nose, to jumping off a buliding, to being hit by a car,  to being shot.  What would be nice, and where I could see us finding a better compromise, would be if there were different consequences based on the type of injury.  That possibility is way beyond my pay grade (IDK if it's at all possible to code or how hard or if it's something others would want).  Despite all I said, I do get that it's very awkward to RP death when they tripped and fell.

[Flori]

At this point I don't really care anymore about what you do on PD side as long as it doesn't involve going back to anything related to the old system.

All im gonna say is the solution does not come from EMS.... there is NOTHING we can do that we aren't doing already to help have more EMTs on duty. If anything the solution comes from staff and the community itself. I will not elaborate on this here because its off-topic and I don't recall having seen any threads asking for feedback or opinions on how to help this issue.

[Victor]

Why dont you all clock on EMS more often and problem is solved tbh.

[Dashfere]

I see all the points and they are mostly all valid. But the original post was aimed to address the fact that RP wise I wouldn't personally leave victims of crime on the ground to 'die' regardless of higher consequences for the criminal. It's human nature (for some of us) to want to do everything we can to help other humans we see are in need, to a point. I simply suggest this:
- No EMS calls to PD/ ignore them
- Come across downed civs by chance, you have the option to transport them to hospital. RP warranted.
- Allow for the helping of injured people as long as resources and time allow it at scenes that PD respond to.

Like everyone has said the problem isn't apparent for a large portion of time. It's just for those cases that it is that we need something to balance it. Because for me personally it ruins RP as a cop. I would never leave someone injured if I had the means and resources to take care of them. Sure it doesn't bother a few people but why restrict those that it does?

[Victor]

21 minutes ago, Dashfere said:

I see all the points and they are mostly all valid. But the original post was aimed to address the fact that RP wise I wouldn't personally leave victims of crime on the ground to 'die' regardless of higher consequences for the criminal. It's human nature (for some of us) to want to do everything we can to help other humans we see are in need, to a point. I simply suggest this:
- No EMS calls to PD/ ignore them
- Come across downed civs by chance, you have the option to transport them to hospital. RP warranted.
- Allow for the helping of injured people as long as resources and time allow it at scenes that PD respond to.

Like everyone has said the problem isn't apparent for a large portion of time. It's just for those cases that it is that we need something to balance it. Because for me personally it ruins RP as a cop. I would never leave someone injured if I had the means and resources to take care of them. Sure it doesn't bother a few people but why restrict those that it does?

I get what you saying Dash and in a way agree but I feel same way when I am as civilian and watch my friend bleed out. If cops then would be allowed to move people to hospitals why not civs then aswell? Because I feel like shit when my friend is lying in pool of blood and I cant move him to medical center.

It would only be fair to give civs transport ability aswell but that when would completely kill off EMS. I still say that way to fix the issue s to have people clock on EMS. But way things are right now, PD takes all the people, more than half of people I trained to be EMT are now POs+ and never clock on EMS. If you guys dont want to feel bad about leaving people bleed out then hop on EMS more often.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Victor

[ImVexal]

4 minutes ago, Victor said:

I get what you saying Dash and in a way agree but I feel same way when I am as civilian and watch my friend bleed out. If cops then would be allowed to move people to hospitals why not civs then aswell? Because I feel like shit when my friend is lying in pool of blood and I cant move him to medical center.

It would only be fair to give civs transport ability aswell but that when would completely kill off EMS. I still say that way to fix the issue s to have people clock on EMS. But way things are right now, PD takes all the people, more than half of people I trained to be EMT are now POs+ and never clock on EMS. If you guys dont want to feel bad about leaving people bleed out then hop on EMS more often.

Exactly it would kill off ems giving to civs, that has no balance to anything. Allowing police to do it would provide that balance to assist ems 

[Victor]

1 minute ago, ImVexal said:

Exactly it would kill off ems giving to civs, that has no balance to anything. Allowing police to do it would provide that balance to assist ems 

Perhaps one of the 6 officers on duty hopping off duty and clocking to EMS would do even better. Dont you think?

[ImVexal]

@Victor

Maybe they get bored standing at legion for hours on end! Maybe they want to be pro-active and actually do something 

 

Edit 

May have sounded kind of rude at the end their no offence intended. A lot of the cops are pro-active people and prefer police because they are always dealing with somthing

Edited November 6, 2018 by ImVexal

[Dashfere]

36 minutes ago, Victor said:

I get what you saying Dash and in a way agree but I feel same way when I am as civilian and watch my friend bleed out. If cops then would be allowed to move people to hospitals why not civs then aswell? Because I feel like shit when my friend is lying in pool of blood and I cant move him to medical center.

It would only be fair to give civs transport ability aswell but that when would completely kill off EMS. I still say that way to fix the issue s to have people clock on EMS. But way things are right now, PD takes all the people, more than half of people I trained to be EMT are now POs+ and never clock on EMS. If you guys dont want to feel bad about leaving people bleed out then hop on EMS more often.

Giving the transport ability to civs wouldn't help at all. As POs we have potentially more medical knowledge in order to get them safely to the hospital and it would reduce the tension felt by a lot of people caught in the middle of something they either wanted no part of or were innocently hurt/injured. POs are authority figures, it's technically our duty to care for the civs in the city. 
And simply saying well just clock off PO and clock into EMT is just generalising and putting a blanket over the problem which is essentially loss of immersion and RP quality because cops have to walk away from victims but aid criminals.
Telling POs to go on EMT duty more is like putting a cast for a broken leg on an knee graze. 
We have some intelligent people in the city, POs who go through days of training and then weeks of experience in the field. We are capable of making a judgement call and knowing when it's our duty or applicable to aid the victims too. 

[ValkyrieBlu]

Personally, I don't think I've ever encountered a situation where I had to pick up the criminal and leave a victim laying on the ground, so I don't have that experience to base my opinion on. But the times that I have encountered a downed person when there was no EMS on, I've opened my phone and made a fake call to EMS, fake radioed dispatch to ask for a ground unit, told the victim that there are no ground units, but there should be a chopper coming soon. I'll ask them questions about their injuries and RP out doing the best I can with a first aid kit. I usually go to the back of my car and pull out a shock blanket and wrap the victim in it, or put it under their head so they're more comfortable. I ask them questions about how they got there and if it was an accident or a crime, and if its a crime, I ask for as many details as possible. I try not to leave until the person has respawned. Sometimes all an officer can do is hold the dying person's hand as they pass on and it is heartbreaking, but I do not believe it has to be as awkward as others have said, because there are ways to ''help'' the person through roleplay, even if you cant do anything through mechanics. 

[Sam]

Cops should be able to pick you up when there is no EMS on. It just makes sense because I run into this alot its kind of annoying.

Edited December 29, 2018 by Isaiah Rashad

[Thorgs]

1 hour ago, Isaiah Rashad said:

Cops should be able to pick you up when there is no EMS on. It just makes sense because I run into this alot its kind of annoying

There are soo many topics on this starting a new thread is not gonna change it. Helps to search before post repeated same topic

[Sam]

Well I felt like making a suggestion and I did. If there is so many topics with this same thing maybe thats a sign. 

[Serena]

17 minutes ago, Isaiah Rashad said:

Well I felt like making a suggestion and I did. If there is so many topics with this same thing maybe thats a sign. 

Multiple threads on this already. I have merged your thread to this one

Edited December 29, 2018 by Serena

[Thorgs]

29 minutes ago, Isaiah Rashad said:

If there is so many topics with this same thing maybe thats a sign

Your beating a dead horse man it is not gonna change your gonna need to value your life a bit more if no EMS are on.