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Police Seeing EMS Calls

Serena

By Serena,
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Serena Advanced Member

Serena

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My suggestion was we get EMS marker back, or some version of it, because I believe PD can benefit from it greatly for all reasons I posted prior.

EMS' reason I see so far is they do not want PD to have this because it devalues their role and takes away communication/interaction from patient and PD.

I argue those points because PD isn't doing anything by seeing those markers other than provide support to EMS or getting to a potentially hostile situation before EMS/investigating a situation first. Communication and interaction comes with being on scene together. But the current system does not warrant EMS to call for PD help unless it is directly hostile. I think communication and interaction can only improve if neutrality in EMS is somehow changed so that they are obligated to inform PD of criminal acts that occur, or if PD can somehow be made aware via notification/marker.

Is there anything I'm missing in this breakdown?

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Bret Prozekt Advanced Member

Bret Prozekt

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2 hours ago, TiLLeR said:

• Interact with EMS more - I find that with this change interactions with EMS have actually increased and are far more positive.  Creating an environment where they are primary to gather and can call on us when needed has increased communication and interaction.  Before it was, as I described above, very static.  In addition PD would swarm to downed players in illegal areas or areas known to be used for illegal activities.  This is seems a tad bit power gamey to me (and I never use that word).

This answers your suggestion as to why the mark more than likely wont make a come back. It has nothing to do with the value of EMS, and is more for the reason of power gaming.

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Serena Advanced Member

Serena

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6 minutes ago, Bret Prozekt [2475] said:

This answers your suggestion as to why the mark more than likely wont make a come back. Is has nothing to do with the value of EMS, and is more for the reason of power gaming.

By that logic, is receiving drug calls power gaming? Fight calls? Gunshot calls? Literally any notification PD receives could be included in this with the exclusion of 911 calls. But then by that logic, could the locals not have called 911 about a downed person just as they do about someone fighting? Sorry, I don't agree. If that's power gaming, so is everything else.

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Osk Advanced Member

Osk

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59 minutes ago, Bret Prozekt [2475] said:

I'm really not understanding why this is such a big issue to very few.
Why are we suggesting that LSFD should change SOP's to be more confined in what we do? 

We have protocols set in place to not put ourselves in danger, and to call police before we ever do put ourselves in any sort of danger. 
When people tell us they were shot and want police, we call police.
When people tell us they don't want police, it's not our job to force them into that situation where police arrive.
If we need police for any situation, we will call for assistance.
This whole thing about police needing to know where downed players are, is just getting ridiculous IMO.

Tiller put it perfectly as to why this system is already better than the last system.

EDIT: I'M NOT SAYING THIS SYSTEM IS PERFECT IN ANY MEANS. THERE'S ALWAYS ROOM FOR IMPROVMENT TO THINGS THAT ARE FRESHLY IMPLEMENTED, HOWEVER PD SEEING THE LOCATIONS OF DOWNED PLAYERS IS NOT THE WAY TO SOLVE ISSUES. ?

The system isn't perfect Bret so stop pretending it is.

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McFeasible Newbie

McFeasible

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26 minutes ago, Flori said:

You cant ask ems to call police for something a patient or a bystander claims that happened. Ems does their job and the victims of any wrong doing will call pd themselves if they want to give their statement. 

If you removed the "Remain Neutral" clause then you most definitely could.

 

As an IRL example:

If EMS was treating an unconscious patient for whatever reason and they believe something malicious was done to the patient, they would route that information to the proper investigative authorities.

 

For examples in game:

"Hey this is EMS such and such. I just received a call at "X" location, it appears to be a murder, you guys might want to investigate this further."

"I am out here in the Ephedrine Camp tending to 3 patients. You may want to figure out what this is about"

"The guy I treated self incriminated on "X"

"We had a very bad vehicle accident and this civilian appears to be extremely intoxicated. We will run his "BAC" at the hospital if you want to come and pick him up after he is treated"

 

Where it stands right now I can do whatever illegal activities I want. If I die and EMS picks me up I am good to go. I have a 50/50 chance...it just depends on what "faction" gets to me. EMS and PD should unified and work together cohesively.

 

What I am proposing is coming up with an updated SOP and applicable training to make EMS "trusted" information providers to PD and "Mandatory Reporters".

 

Again, IMHO it would provide EMS with:

Many more/broader RP elements to work with.

It would bridge the disconnect with PD and EMS

It would give them a valuable role in PD's eyes

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Johnny Silverhand Advanced Member

Johnny Silverhand

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I do agree with this, @McFeasible And i also do believe that LSPD Should be notified if somebody "goes down" Because not only is it useful knowledge in particular cases - but what about if there are no EMS on at the time? How would LSPD know that somebody is down, unless someone called? (People do still get killed for not wearing their seat belt, murder kitties, getting ran over, etc.) So i feel like there should be a tie in between LSPD/EMS and there should be a more unified relationship between the two factions without a doubt. LSPD/EMS are all part of the city. We save lives, and stop trouble. We are on the same side, and we both do our share of helping out people.

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ValkyrieBlu Advanced Member

ValkyrieBlu

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I've got mixed opinions about this so this is gonna be a lot of different trains of thought.

  • If it is player vs. player hostility, you would get either a fight call or a gunshot call.  -- Police have the right to respond and secure the scene
  • If its a matter of hostile locals, then the EMS should and most often do call the police to help clear the area. -- Police WILL respond and secure the scene
  • If its an accident, such as the case of a missing seatbelt or maybe a murder kitty, then police wouldn't need to be there and the EMS can have their RP without cops involvement. -- Police are unneeded and if are responding, should only be there to help control traffic, help kill murder kitties, etc. 

 

Adding a marker would be nice for places like Legion. Most times, cops will ignore fight calls and gunshot calls at Legion because its all just muscle spasms and switching to first person view. If we get a fight/gunshot call followed by an EMS ping, then our attitude would change and we might respond to remove riff raff and calm everyone down. If this is not a change that will be added/reverted or whatever it is, then it should be police awareness and fight calls and gunshot calls should not ever be disregarded and prioritized accordingly.

I kinda like the idea of ''Mandatory Reporters''. Its not like police can charge anyone for anything unless the suspect admits to it, but it gives police a chance to RP an investigation and gives EMS more RP than just revive bot. When a cop witnesses the crime, an investigation isn't really needed cause the officer already knows what happened so its just capture-booking-done. If we get all the facts, cross examine witnesses, at the end of the day it shouldn't really matter if they get booked or not because the police had a chance to attempt to try to get the suspect to self incriminate, and the suspect had a chance to try and bullshit his way out of it. Lots of RP right there that the EMS can also take part in as witnesses.  

I don't want to belittle the work that the EMS Sr. Staff has done to create the faction, nor do I want to minimize the importance of the role EMS play on the server, but with some changes to SOP's, I feel that it can actually be a fun place to work again. Even with the removal of PD medic calls, when I play as EMS I still feel like I am a revive bot. I don't feel valued. To put it crudely (and I really do apologize for putting it like this, I simply have no better analogy), I feel like we as EMS have been handed a pile of trash and now we're gloating over it simply because PD does not share in that pile of trash. At the end of the day, its still trash. Not one of my patient's RP have changed based on the fact that no police are on scene, nor has my questions for my patient changed. Same goes for when I am the patient on the ground getting treated. No EMS has shown me any better or worse RP because an officer was or wasn't standing there. So why is this such a big achievement for EMS? 

 

4 hours ago, McFeasible said:

EMS should not be able to treat a patient for being shot, and send him on his way without PD getting their culprits description. IMO once all "life-threatening injuries" are treated PD should be there to question the patient prior to final release.

This could perhaps be added to the SOP's. Personally, I try not to start questioning and booking a suspect while they are unconscious. No questions, no searching. Maybe grab the ID as I feel like that might be normal, but trying to processing them while they're laying there bleeding seems a bit scavenger-y ''Yes, let me rifle through your clothes to find all your goodies while you moan in agony.''  If the EMS feel like the police have already done all the fun bits, make an SOP section about interacting with downed suspects that an officer isn't allowed to question the suspect until the EMS gives the all clear. It can be played out in RP that the suspect is in shock from his injuries and is unable to give a reliable testimony or something similar. That way the EMS feels like they have more control over the scene and make it so that PD has to give the all clear for environmental safety and EMS gives the all clear for patient's safety.

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Victor Advanced Member

Victor

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I like new change, it gives EMS more freedom over the scene and responsibility to make sure its safe and secure to treat the patient. New change also does not put criminals under disadvantage when calling EMS. Thus giving that important feel of neutrality. Because in past, calling EMS almost assured that PD will show up. I also do not want to see current neutrality of EMS changed at all. Yes it is not realistic but this is game after all and it is there for a good reason.

 

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