State of the City

[Thorgs]

2 hours ago, Antonio Wright said:

because of the lack of diverse jobs with decent payouts.

It sounds to me your looking for the get rich quick and not working for a goal or you goal wish I get it faster not how jobs work same as irl.

2 hours ago, Antonio Wright said:

crime doesn't pay. police are clearly biased by the current status of balance

Really? Then you clearly don't know how to out smart the cops. The good criminal knows his limits and back up plan just in case. Before just doing cop back in the day I never got caught by police and made plenty of cash when I did it. Most just think I'll just run up and down the street and sell and never pay attention to the surroundings and that's how you get caught. I know plenty of criminals through my job that are extremely difficult to catch some I still have not caught. 

And they are always looking to adding more stuff what you need to know is they have real jobs to and things take time as they try to give content that other server don't have 

[Antonio Wright]

41 minutes ago, Thorgs said:

It sounds to me your looking for the get rich quick and not working for a goal or you goal wish I get it faster not how jobs work same as irl.

 

It's not about get rich quick, it's about balance between legal jobs for time spent vs money made. I'm not talking about raising the amount of money you can make per hour, i'm asking to give more options on how to make that money to create different RP situations.

 

41 minutes ago, Thorgs said:

Really? Then you clearly don't know how to out smart the cops. The good criminal knows his limits and back up plan just in case. Before just doing cop back in the day I never got caught by police and made plenty of cash when I did it. Most just think I'll just run up and down the street and sell and never pay attention to the surroundings and that's how you get caught. I know plenty of criminals through my job that are extremely difficult to catch some I still have not caught. 

It's not about out-smarting the cops. I don't want to outsmart them. I've been sneaking around them all week to make money doing illicit activities and it's dreadfully boring.

I want to RP with the cops,  make a run for it and get into a car chase. Have you compared top speeds on police cars vs. civ cars? And prices? 

And if i do get caught after trying to run I risk high fines and jail time for what, a 4k payout on a safe or selling 10k worth of drugs? 

 

When you can do scuba for 80k an hour.

 

edit:

I get it, rewards shouldn't matter because we are here to RP. And we are. But i'm saying for people that want to make money as their incentive to RP, adding higher rewards and keeping the high risk would create more RPing scenarios for everyone.

I love the community and Serpico is doing a great job and i fully support him, this server is by far the cleanest i've seen, and I know he's doing his best but it's just getting stale after a couple of weeks of playing and that's just my own opinion. There is a good list of jobs and activites you can do but in reality only one or two options if you really wanna buy things and explore the game without spending months grinding legal jobs. Illegal jobs are even less money and carry risk.

Edited May 17, 2019 by Antonio Wright

[Saja Kain]

Oh my. . .

Honestly, I'm disappointed. I'm not exactly 100% sure on what I expected when I read the title "State of the City". Perhaps an opinion on current affairs within the local gangs and their relationships? Maybe the overall analysis of activity across the three servers? Oh - maybe the general observation on the quality of RP among civilians of this city. As I said, not 100% sure but what I can tell you is that I didn't expect it to be another "illegal jobs don't make enough money" thread. I also didn't expect it to be a thread where people started pointing fingers at others and blaming them for their unhappiness in the city.

Before I go any further I do want it known (for those that may not know me at this point) that I have taken part in jobs and activities on all fronts. I've done deliveries, metal refinement, weed, cocaine, scuba diving, trucking, EMS, LSPD, taxi driving, mechanic work. . . I've been around the block a time or two. With that being said, here goes. . .

-----

Stop caring about the money and focus on the RP. I realize this is easier said than done and I also realize that as long as our economy stays in it's current form there will always be those players who primarily focus on the money - what job makes the most for the least amount of effort and time.

I don't think it's really fair to say that BadlandsRP is a "cop server", or a "money grind server", or even an "economy driven server". Yes we have cops. Yes things are expensive. Yes there's a very robust economy. While all these are true, Badlands is a RP server at the core. One of the very first things that you come across in BLRP is a rule that says "You must put effort into RP at all times." Imo, if you choose to play here you should have the basic acknowledgement that RP is the focus. Start focusing on it.

-----

It's almost a bit ironic that there are complaints about scuba diving being too profitable and, at the same time, the furthest opportunity from RP value. While I can agree that choosing to dive all day can give you little to almost no interaction with others, something that I'm noticing an increase in is the amount of criminals who suddenly seem to know how to dive. Specifically they use this newfound expertise to get away from police. Dealing drugs at the pier? Let's flee by diving and staying under the water for 15 minutes at time. Vehicle's almost nonoperational? Let's make a dash to the beach, swim out, and dive for 15 minutes to avoid any RP with those chasing me (cops or bosses). These are not made-up scenarios; I've witnessed them first hand. (Check the end of my post for a relating story).

-----

I could say a lot more, honestly, but this is already long enough. At the end of the day, your focus should be RP. In a perfect world this would happen and money wouldn't be an issue. We don't live in a perfect world so you need people to remind others from time to time to readjust their focus and put priorities back in line.

Speaking from experience, there are opportunities to make good money on almost every front; government work, civilian work, and criminal work. These opportunities are varied in activity because not everyone is the same. The devs of this server do their best to offer a large pool of jobs. It's not up to them, however, to make adjustments to make your preferred method more profitable or easier than the others.

If anyone should be curious, I've had - what I consider - to be good paying jobs in the government. As previously noted I've also done taxi work, truck driving, deliveries, criminal work, and even the infamous scuba diving. You know what was the most profitable? Criminal work. I won't go into methods as that's another discussion but I've made more money in relation to investment with criminal work than anything else.

If your desired focus of RP is the criminal life then it is up to you to learn how to also make it profitable. Don't expect the devs to make your profits easier. Don't expect the cops to go easier on you with the fines. Learn how to not get caught. Learn to work with others and be more efficient if you want to keep more money than you lose. More importantly, however, focus on the RP experiences you're going to undertake and how to make those more enjoyable for everyone involved. Stop worrying about the dollar and a lot of your "issues" will suddenly disappear.

------
------

Diving Story

There were a couple of gentlemen on the pier distributing drugs among the locals. They were making things slightly more complicated for myself and my team on the LSPD. Instead of running or driving away form the scene they opted to simply take a 30 ft jump off the pier with scuba tanks and dive for 5 - 15 minutes at a time to evade. Several calls came in over a period of time and it was developing the same pattern. Locals would call the cops. We would arrive on scene. Suspects would take a dive. Rinse and repeat.

After a few repetitive calls in this nature, it was obvious we weren't going to catch our suspects the usual way. With yet another call coming in, I informed my team that I was going to take a swim. I approached wide and then swam under the pier. I then proceeded to take the ladder at the end, work my way up, and ended up behind the suspects without them the wiser. Instead of chasing, I sat back and observed the two dealing drugs while relaying, in real time, the observation to my teammates. I patiently waited for backup. When backup arrived we swarmed them. They couldn't escape by diving.

Now while one would imagine "Oh man I bet you hit them with everything in the book for all the trouble they gave you!". . . what actually happened was quite different. Yes, I invested over an hour into these guys playing cat and mouse. They adjusted their approach so we had to adjust ours. When it was all said and done, however, I thanked them. Yes. A police officer thanked the criminal. They were fined a mere $5,000 because - hey - they did get caught. However they realized they were caught, they were respectful, and the RP value gained from the entire experience was almost priceless. I wasn't going to slam them with everything under the sun. No. I enjoyed the RP, I enjoyed the experience, and I let them go with the smallest fine I could possibly give without making it free.

[Antonio Wright]

7 hours ago, Saja Kain said:

I've made more money in relation to investment with criminal work than anything else.

 

That doesn't mean that the money made per hour is higher doing criminal work (even assuming you don't get caught a single time), it just means you've spent more time doing criminal work.

7 hours ago, Saja Kain said:

If your desired focus of RP is the criminal life then it is up to you to learn how to also make it profitable. Don't expect the devs to make your profits easier. Don't expect the cops to go easier on you with the fines. Learn how to not get caught. Learn to work with others and be more efficient if you want to keep more money than you lose. More importantly, however, focus on the RP experiences you're going to undertake and how to make those more enjoyable for everyone involved. Stop worrying about the dollar and a lot of your "issues" will suddenly disappear.

Again, it's not about "not getting caught" it's about the risk of getting caught vs the reward for risking it. Why would i engage in RP with a cop when i could lose so much, and gain so little in return other than an "RP experience" that i need to pay for? 

 

I love RP, don't get me wrong. But I value my time, wasting dollars to RP when I'm saving for a business or expensive cars which take hours on end of grinding repetitive tasks with little to no social interaction makes me ask myself this question: could this really not be better?

Can't we all be happy?

-Add alternative methods of money making where the risks are everything, and the payout is great <- More RP scenarios, player interactions. aka heists, drug deliveries, etc.

-Balance the current job list to match at least closer to the current scuba diving income rates or lower the scuba rates slightly and bring everything else up to match. This keep players doing and trying new things, or rotating between them and keeps things fresh. 

(ex: Currently It takes around 90 loads to even pay off the truck you bought, they take around 2-5 minutes each. That's 4 hours for 120k; scuba diving is 80k/hr. Knowing this information, why would I even buy a truck? Just to be a truck driver? Sure. I'd love to RP as one. But having such a huge difference in income is unnecessary. )

-Adding a couple more jobs wouldn't hurt as well, but right now it's not a priority.

 

It's not "illegal jobs don't pay enough". There just aren't enough of them, and the rewards aren't worth the risk or investment compared to other money making methods.

 

The RP experience is great and yeah that's what we're here for. So why not give us something to RP over? We can still make our own RP scenarios. This could only be better, if balanced correctly. Anyone an economist here?

Edited May 17, 2019 by Antonio Wright

[Saja Kain]

3 hours ago, Antonio Wright said:

That doesn't mean that the money made per hour is higher doing criminal work (even assuming you don't get caught a single time), it just means you've spent more time doing criminal work.

That's exactly what it means. Perhaps you misunderstood the point. With everything considered around investment (equipment purchases, time working, distribution, effort, and payout) the most profitable job in the city right now, when done right, is criminal work. . . in my experience. There will obviously be some that disagree. Again, I'm not going to go into methods as that's a different topic. Without a doubt, though, the most profitable job in the city right now is being a criminal. In terms of "spending more time" - I've taken part in criminal activity the least. I've been a free Uber provider longer than I've been involved in criminal activity on Saja Kain. The criminal life is very lucrative but I don't prefer that life. At least not with Saja. . .

 

3 hours ago, Antonio Wright said:

Again, it's not about "not getting caught" it's about the risk of getting caught vs the reward for risking it. Why would i engage in RP with a cop when i could lose so much, and gain so little in return other than an "RP experience" that i need to pay for?

I love RP, don't get me wrong. But I value my time, wasting dollars to RP when I'm saving for a business or expensive cars which take hours on end of grinding repetitive tasks with little to no social interaction makes me ask myself this question: could this really not be better?

Let me ask you this - what does your character do in this city? Why is he / she here? What brought them, specifically, to our Los Santos? Think about that for a moment.

I can't speak for you but I have a set of almost identical triplets in the city. One is Saja Kain. He's a devoted police officer who takes after his parents. His parents devoted their lives to helping others in their respective fields and all he wants to do is pay it forward. Marcus Kain is the same way. He doesn't necessarily like the idea of being a police officer. Instead, he chose to pursue a career in the medical field. He currently works with the LSFD and is establishing himself in the city. (He's just arrived and is relatively new to the LSFD team). Antonio is the third of the triplets. Unlike either of his brothers, his methods are more questionable. He's not afraid to rub shoulders with the police, get his hands dirty, or take care of business if he needs to. He's a good guy at heart but he feels he's been dealt a bad hand.

That's a brief introduction - their stories are more involved. The important thing here, though, is the reason why I asked you what brought your characters to the city. Does it make sense for them to grind every day toward an "expensive car" or "opening a business"? In my case, sure. Antonio might consider a business front. Saja and Marcus, though? Absolutely not. They're too involved in their work to consider such options at this time.

-----

"Why would I engage in RP with a cop when I could lose so much and gain so little in return other tan an 'RP experience'?"

Because that's why you should be here. The RP experience. Not making money. With this mindset, it's obvious that your primary goal in the city is to make money and RP is second. As long as you, or anyone else, has this mindset they will never truly be happy. Things will always be unbalanced, unfair, and no fun. Develop your character's story. Earn money as you go along. Get involved and enjoy "life" in the city. Stop worrying about gains vs losses.

 

3 hours ago, Antonio Wright said:

Currently It takes around 90 loads to even pay off the truck you bought, they take around 2-5 minutes each. That's 4 hours for 120k; scuba diving is 80k/hr. Knowing this information, why would I even buy a truck? Just to be a truck driver? Sure. I'd love to RP as one. But having such a huge difference in income is unnecessary.

Again. Why is the income per hour the top concern here? If you would love to RP as a truck driver then RP as a truck driver and enjoy the experience.

There's a difference in being a truck driver and being a scuba diver. While both have risks, both obviously have different salaries. There's training, experience, using your own equipment vs renting a company's set, etc.

I'm also not sure what you're experiencing with truck driving, in general. If it takes you four hours to make only 120K then you're being distracted or doing things in between. (Perhaps you're socializing and taking part in RP!) Seriously, though, that rate is extremely low even for someone who takes their time driving and talks to folks along the way. I can make roughly $60,000 - $70,000 per hour, give or take. There is RNG to it, no doubt. If I get a string of short deliveries it's obviously going to be lower but I can also get a string of OTR deliveries which pays more. Regardless - in four hour's time that's $240,000 - $280,000. That's not paying off one truck - that's paying off two.

There's also the aspect of making passive money from your truck. While you're out doing your criminal thing - ever consider renting out your truck? There's plenty of people that do that. I've done that in the past as well.

 

3 hours ago, Antonio Wright said:

It's not "illegal jobs don't pay enough". There just aren't enough of them, and the rewards aren't worth the risk or investment compared to other money making methods.

Your concern here, again, is the payout instead of the experience. Weed. Meth. Cocaine. Armed robberies. Kidnappings. Stealing cars. There's plenty of opportunity and diversity in the criminal field. It may not be as simple as "go here and dig something up to sell it at a vendor" but it does pay when handled correctly. It pays very well.

Look. I don't judge you or even think it's a bad approach to playing FiveM. It's just not the right approach for our city. We have an economy and players should use it to it's fullest potential. However that doesn't mean a person should make it their priority. We are a RP server. Stories and characters are developed here and for anyone to really enjoy their time then that has to be your focus. If that's out of your wheelhouse then, I'm sorry. You will always find something wrong with what we offer here.

[Antonio Wright]

You've completely missed my point: economy & content. Yes RP is the main goal and we can RP anything out of what we already have. So I don't understand your argument, all you're doing is defending the integrity of the RP when I'm all for the RP and the changes would just be to fine-tune the economy with no specific requests, just an overhaul/rebalance. buffs and nerfs.  Maybe some new content like bank/jewel heists.. with security trucks who have RPers for drivers... or a new delivery job with drug crates (job only, like drink packs)

You just sound like you're against or scared of change, how would a balanced economy with more high stakes content negatively affect RPing? Please tell me.  

And who's to say my character, Antonio, isn't a hard-working dude who always tries to increase his profits per hour? MIT econ dropout? Sporting a gambling addiction that seems to weigh him down from the heavyweight class of rich folk. And to his dismay he discovered that the shortest road to riches is a dull monotonous, lonely grind. With no competitor in profits per hour.

 

edit: trucking is 1k-8k per delivery, 1k dropoffs take around 1min. 8k deliveries take at least 8 minutes. (paleto to the LS docks) Don't forget your gas stops, potential repairs,

Then you have to go grab another trailer, so how can you possibly get over 60k per hour trucking?

 

 

I understand, roleplay it out. But really, you don't think the economy could use improvement at all? Naive. The money doesn't matter, but it does matter. Maybe not to you or bob, bill. sally. and joe but a balanced economy would bring the server to the next level in terms of RP, especially in the hands of the gifted RPers we have.

Edited May 17, 2019 by Antonio Wright

[Saja Kain]

5 minutes ago, Antonio Wright said:

You just sound like you're against or scared of change, how would a balanced economy with more high stakes content negatively affect RPing? Please tell me.

Before I get into this I feel that you and I, specifically, are at an impasse. I've given you very clear, very simple examples and explanations while replying to you directly. It might be best that we choose to shake hands, agree to disagree, and go about our business.

This thread, from the OP, is specifically referencing how scuba diving is allegedly the most profitable, how criminal activity has seen changes that do not favor their potential outcome, and is directly requesting a change to these specific jobs in an effort to maintain "balance". The issue here is there is no "balance" in the career field. Some jobs just make more money than others. That's life.

My argument here is that the economy and jobs are fine the way they are. The current state of the city is fine in terms of jobs (both legal and illegal) and the money you make respectively with each. Keep in mind that this is from my perspective that the criminal life is the best paying job while also being my least invested. I'm simply saying that if you (or anyone) adjusts their focus to the RP then money will take a back seat and maybe. . . just maybe. . . things won't seem so unbalanced.

-----

Now. In reference to your quote? I am not one afraid of change. Nor am I against it. Poke around on the forums and you might see some points where I've directly suggested change. If you had insight to my tickets and discussions with the administration, you would know that I am all for change. Do not presume that just because I offer a debate on the economy I do not want to see change in the city.

I would agree that there could always be more jobs available - even more criminal jobs. But I also understand that it takes several hours of implementation, testing, balancing, troubleshooting, coding, and work to do that for just one job, let alone a multitude. It's not just about putting in a job. You also have to consider how that job will directly impact the rest of the city. Take for instance the latest speed bomb. Terrorist attacks. While it may seem just one small addition, it affects everyone. Purchase costs, implementation to the city, proper function, SOP changes for the LSPD, new risks for the LSFD, and much, much more.

I would love to see more jobs in the city. I am not, however, going to request such jobs simply because the current ones available seem unfair or unbalanced when it comes to making money. They're not meant to be balanced. Imagine if everyone went to work, regardless of what they did, and made the same amount of money. That's a rabbit trail for another conversation. I want to see more jobs on the premise of more diversity and more unique opportunities to RP in the city. Frankly, I wouldn't care if they're free. Sometimes we have to make up our own jobs. (Senior Citizen Bus Tour, anyone?! lol. . . ) My point, at the end of the day, is RP should be anyone's primary focus here. Rally for change for more RP; absolutely. Make such rallies because you want more options to make better money or wish to see other jobs nerfed because they "pay too much"? That's not in my wheelhouse.

[Antonio Wright]

2 minutes ago, Saja Kain said:

I'm simply saying that if you (or anyone) adjusts their focus to the RP then money will take a back seat and maybe. . . just maybe. . . things won't seem so unbalanced.

I guess you're right. If no one looks at it or thinks about it, then it doesn't exist.

 

You can decide to disagree, but i never disagreed with you. You're arguing that "if you RP then the problem doesn't exist", and that's true. But that doesn't mean we can't RP and also work on the problem. A thriving and intertwined economy, stringing multiple job types together and increasing points of interest to enhance RP scenarios.  Rewarding and punishing with good RP. Diverse & worthwhile employment opportunities, with of course having a semblance of realistic wage differences.

 

I see that you are not against change, so we can agree there. I deplore you to understand that I'm not trying to attack your beliefs I am simply trying to open up your eyes to the possibilities of a fine-tuned economy driving our gifted RPers around LS

[Danielle Wright]

In regards to the PD and civ interactions, I hardly ever get on my criminal character anymore. I feel like if I win a scenario (which to be honest, I rarely do) then there's a lot of cops upset with me. and I get the book thrown at me, even when I request a lawyer and RP the best I can. I just, don't even bother anymore...

TLDR: Bye Izzy.

Edited May 18, 2019 by Isabella Sanchez Evans

[Kilo]

Bye Izzy

 

[Reuben ~ Reckonity]

2 hours ago, Isabella Sanchez Evans said:

In regards to the PD and civ interactions, I hardly ever get on my criminal character anymore. I feel like if I win a scenario (which to be honest, I rarely do) then there's a lot of cops upset with me. and I get the book thrown at me, even when I request a lawyer and RP the best I can. I just, don't even bother anymore...

TLDR: Bye Izzy.

I feel you on a spiritual level right there, RIP Sanjay ;-;

[Danielle Wright]

On 5/13/2019 at 11:04 AM, Matthew Evans said:

It also seems that there has been a huge lack of gang-police RP, which is unhealthy. Gangs and PD are always going to co-exist in some way and there's been a huge rift in that relationship as a result of the way many members of PD treat gangs through the use of full fines/time and sometimes excessive amount of force or stereotyping, which seriously kills the desire to RP as a gang. Obviously there are plenty of times where gang RP can get out of control, however the overall RP shouldn't be discouraged. If gangs were to disappear from the city, cops would be bored writing speeding tickets and conducting welfare checks and dealing with occasional drug calls, much like it is now with the majority of people scuba diving instead of interacting through illegal activities. Speaking with several PD members, I have heard that the thrill of dealing with a street gangs makes PD much more interesting and fun compared to chasing drug calls on the pier throughout a shift, because of the constant threat of being attacked or kidnapped, and many have told me they would like to see more gang RP taking place, such as Vagos vs. Ballas, etc. in order to change up the monotony of routine patrolling, and that includes myself as a police officer. 

I tried to play my gang character last night and do some gang vs gang stuff, but from my understanding this is really discouraged from senior level PD standpoint. I'm not quite sure what to do with my gang character at this point. Personally, I and a lot of cops agree with you in that we miss the gang activity and it makes PD more enjoyable. Yeah, I don't always win as a police officer, sometimes I get shot and sometimes I don't win.. but it's so much better than just driving around aimlessly with nothing to do.... 

[TiLLeR]

There was a time where there was actual civ RP.  It wasn't all Gang vs Cop Rp.. I miss those days.  When I could actually make a traffic stop and not get held up.  Or how about a chase where you weren't also getting chased by 3 other 'gang vehicles'.  I have no problem with Gang RP... but the extent of 90% of my gang experience for the past month has been gun play.  Cops can't even investigate drug activity without being shot at - mind you no initiation.. just shooting out tires so they can be kidnapped.

The issue is that for some reason everyone feels the need to be a part of the gang... and the majority want to RP as the angry gang member who shoots first and asks questions later.  Then when they get busted by the cops they get salty for hefty fines.  I can tell you a year ago I rarely gave a max ticket.  That was because the RP wasn't all Guns, Revenge, and hostility... and there was still crime!  For some reason the community has shifted to the mentality that everyone must be a part of a gang and that the gang needs to hate the police, target the police, shoot first ask questions later, and occasionally RP.

Now all of that is very generalistic.  There are many of you who put a lot of effort into your RP and I am not trying to marginalize it... but my experience has been very negative lately.  On the occasion that I arrest someone, I try to rp with them and all I get is a rushed  'give me my ticket so I can move on' attitude.  It seems that the interest is just in doing illegal things with your friends and not truly having a dynamic rp exchange with a variety of people.

For those that think that the ticketing guide is too severe - remember it was designed this way (long before me) to encourage RP.  The server was started with a RP over Gun Play mentality and the rules, laws, and fines were designed to encourage that.  Again for the first year and a half i was here it was rare to max out tickets... but there has been a HUGE increase in violence and the violence is cyclical - meaning it just goes back and forth.  God forbid that a cop arrest you - now they are targeted and harassed for the rest of the server cycle.  While loosely realistic... not really... and certainly not enjoyable when it's the constant not the rare activity.

So before you start to throw any group under the bus for discouraging anything... perhaps we could all reflect on how we contribute to the community RP wise.. not just ourselves, our friends, or our gangs.

[Cheez]

20 hours ago, Isabella Sanchez Evans said:

In regards to the PD and civ interactions, I hardly ever get on my criminal character anymore. I feel like if I win a scenario (which to be honest, I rarely do) then there's a lot of cops upset with me. and I get the book thrown at me, even when I request a lawyer and RP the best I can. I just, don't even bother anymore...

TLDR: Bye Izzy.

That is how it is most of the time, sure there is times where they don't get upset, but most of the time if you kill them even once they're just upset. Us in W gang have just realized that that is how it is and we just keep doing us, but we have calmed down a lot since before, we used  to do a lot of killing of cops but now not as much.

 

and yup, the book usually gets thrown at you, and now its even worse because if they take your license that's a rip.

and those talking about the money stuff with fines, i'm sure most people known that I Adam Rogers am in jail A LOT and usually have hefty fines and i'm usually still fine with my money, right now i'm sitting at like ~20k

Edited May 18, 2019 by Cheez

[Antonio Wright]

 Disclaimer: I'm not part of a gang, I've never shot at a cop. I've never been arrested but I have been caught selling narcotics and have been fined. The thought of trying to RP a scenario (running away) where I could lose more than I already am is more daunting for me than the potential fun i could have doing it.

 

4 hours ago, TiLLeR said:

 I have no problem with Gang RP... but the extent of 90% of my gang experience for the past month has been gun play.  Cops can't even investigate drug activity without being shot at - mind you no initiation.. just shooting out tires so they can be kidnapped.

 

4 hours ago, TiLLeR said:

On the occasion that I arrest someone, I try to rp with them and all I get is a rushed  'give me my ticket so I can move on' attitude.  It seems that the interest is just in doing illegal things with your friends and not truly having a dynamic rp exchange with a variety of people.

For those that think that the ticketing guide is too severe - remember it was designed this way (long before me) to encourage RP.

This doesn't mean the numbers don't need to be changed.

 

Maybe, just maybe, some tweaks could fix people's attitudes towards police and RP scenarios where losses would be had. Maybe people wouldn't be so keen on shooting cops, desperate to get away, if their cars would have more of a chance in a car chase. Maybe rather than lowering ticketing, there would be less salt if payouts were actually worth the time you spend processing and trying to RP with people, especially with how easy it is to catch criminals right now.

Hell, if you caught someone with all of their illegal stuff on them or at the processing facilities then, yeah, they're gonna lose it all. But If you catch someone halfway through operations, not only do they lose what they have left they also get ticketed and lose everything they've been working on, and potentially get forced into a jail RP scenario wasting more of their time (Time that might not feel wasted if some sort of reward was gained from the scenario and all the time spent grinding).

I would love to get into some light-hearted trouble and RP out scenarios with police, why do I need to grind for more than an hour just to lose everything for that experience? Right now as the system currently is, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth to have to deal with the police. I have no rights. No due processing. "So just give me my ticket so i can move on" <- not my attitude but definitely empathetic.

4 hours ago, TiLLeR said:

Again for the first year and a half i was here it was rare to max out tickets... but there has been a HUGE increase in violence and the violence is cyclical - meaning it just goes back and forth.  God forbid that a cop arrest you - now they are targeted and harassed for the rest of the server cycle.  While loosely realistic... not really... and certainly not enjoyable when it's the constant not the rare activity.

 So before you start to throw any group under the bus for discouraging anything... perhaps we could all reflect on how we contribute to the community RP wise.. not just ourselves, our friends, or our gangs.

Please hear me out, I believe through development we could direct the violence into RP scenarios that could be enjoyable for all parties. Create more steps to the illegal job market for gangs and individuals alike, where smaller guaranteed profits can be made to help deal with potential tickets:

ie. drug deals with the local gangs in bulk, where police wouldn't get pinged because it's between criminals (less profitable than selling bags to locals); delivery jobs (with drug packs similar to drink/food packs) for local gangs where police get pinged by informants and initiate a car chase (scaling with officers online, high risk high payout) etc etc.

There are plenty of possibilities that wouldn't be outside of the mechanics that already exist. I'd love to talk more balance if someone is interested in my ideas.

Give people chances to get away with it. Going into a job knowing the risk of jail-time but desiring the high payout when you start the job is realistic criminal activity and would create fun RP scenarios by itself. As a criminal, trying to make pocket change from pedaling drugs or laundering money with the police looming in the distance isn't fun. Those sorts of things are easier to do in real life than in this server, and the payout is higher relative to job income.

 

4 hours ago, TiLLeR said:

The issue is that for some reason everyone feels the need to be a part of the gang..

We're playing GTA! Do you want all 32 players to be police officers online, giving each other traffic tickets all day? We're RPing but at the end of the day it's just a game and we all have lives to live outside of it. Balancing the game would give cops more to do, keep violence controlled in different RP scenarios, and give the average player who can only play for a couple of hours a day some sort of progression even through all of the RPing, just for spending time with us and putting on a good show.

Edited May 19, 2019 by Antonio Wright

[Danielle Wright]

I literally was on my legal character who isn't part of a gang all week, I jumped on Izzy for the first time in a week, my first interaction with the cops was negative like I had been shooting at them all week, which is completely untrue. 

I never have minded getting busted by the police, but lately it's definitely been a lot more the cops I have recently seem to be more about punishing and fining and less about the interaction. There's definitely a must win attitude for some, and they literally get seriously upset when they don't. It's not fun for me either, my experience is ruined with it too. 

It's no secret that gangs have slowed down and are on the way to being completely non-existent. Which may be the direction some want to go, I don't know. I know I'm done with my gang RP. Possibly come into the city every now and then on her to sell tacos or something, not sure.  It also might be time for me to move on.

[Antonio Wright]

11 minutes ago, Isabella Sanchez Evans said:

There's definitely a must win attitude for some, and they literally get seriously upset when they don't. It's not fun for me either, my experience is ruined with it too. 

With careful balancing, the police can maintain the "must-win" attitude without it feeling so detrimental towards our characters. There are already systems in place to prevent repeat-offenders from doing whatever the fuck they want all the time without progressively worse punishments, why aren't the rewards for getting away with crime progressively more rewarding? Shouldn't the most notorious gangs not only have the strictest punishments but the highest payouts? Why else would we be part of a gang?

Edited May 19, 2019 by Antonio Wright

[Saja Kain]

25 minutes ago, Antonio Wright said:

But If you catch someone halfway through operations, not only do they lose what they have left they also get ticketed and lose everything they've been working on, and potentially get forced into a jail RP scenario wasting more of their time (Time that might not feel wasted if some sort of reward was gained from the scenario and all the time spent grinding).

If someone undertakes any criminal activity there is the automatic risk of getting caught. If someone is so concerned with going to jail and "wasting their time" then perhaps they should seek work elsewhere that doesn't have a potential of being put in jail. Why should the system change to be more lenient on the criminals because they get caught? That makes no sense.

There is a potential reward for jail time and RP scenarios. Requesting a lawyer, and good RP among those involved, can reduce your jail time and fines by 100%. What more reward can someone possibly want here? The problem is, as Tiller noted, that people don't want to RP it out. Their time is wasted because they've lost money and they're losing money. As such they present a "just get me out of here" attitude which is a bad experience for everyone involved (lawyers, LSPD, and the criminal alike). This is a huge come around to the original points discussed previously - people are too concerned with the money aspect than the RP aspect. If people would put as much effort into their RP (especially when they get caught) they might be surprised at how little they get fined or how much they can "get away with".

 

30 minutes ago, Antonio Wright said:

We're playing GTA!

No, we're not. Absolutely not. Not even close. We're "playing" in a "living city" that just happens to be based off the GTAV world. FiveM, especially BadlandsRP - is not GTAV. If you want the gang / criminal / biker lifestyle with zero penalty then go play GTAV / GTA Online. (Sidenote: I am well aware of the difference. I came to BadlandsRP from GTA Online. I was the Vice President of a chapter in one of the most active - if not the most active - MCs on PC).

BadlandsRP is a city where characters are developed, stories are built every day, and the people are supposed to live their daily lives doing what they enjoy - whatever that may be. In an odd and indirect comparison, you could essentially say we're playing Sims in the GTA V world.

 

41 minutes ago, Antonio Wright said:

Maybe, just maybe, some tweaks could fix people's attitudes towards police and RP scenarios where losses would be had. Maybe people wouldn't be so keen on shooting cops, desperate to get away, if their cars would have more of a chance in a car chase. Maybe rather than lowering ticketing, there would be less salt if payouts were actually worth the time you spend processing and trying to RP with people, especially with how easy it is to catch criminals right now.

Why does the city have to be tweaked to adjust someone's attitude? Why can't the person just adjust their attitude on their own? This is something I don't understand. The city has been functioning relatively well. Sure, nothing is perfect in anything, but this has been successful and remains successful today as it is built.

"if their cars would have more of a chance in a car chase". . . I'm not going to lengthen this reply more by giving you statistical data comparing engines of every day civilians vs those of any given PD but rest assured that the vehicles you see on any PD are far superior to the majority of vehicles on the road. Yes, there are those that can match it or even surpass them but those are not the majority and maybe make up 5% - 10% of the road, if that. It's specifically why most people don't even try to run from a cop or start a police chase to begin with - they know that their car is not equipped to outrun a police vehicle. I say all that to say this - it's perfectly acceptable that PD vehicles in BLRP are superior to the majority of vehicles available to civilians.

[Antonio Wright]

2 hours ago, Saja Kain said:

If someone undertakes any criminal activity there is the automatic risk of getting caught. If someone is so concerned with going to jail and "wasting their time" then perhaps they should seek work elsewhere that doesn't have a potential of being put in jail. Why should the system change to be more lenient on the criminals because they get caught? That makes no sense.

There is a potential reward for jail time and RP scenarios. Requesting a lawyer, and good RP among those involved, can reduce your jail time and fines by 100%. What more reward can someone possibly want here? The problem is, as Tiller noted, that people don't want to RP it out. Their time is wasted because they've lost money and they're losing money. As such they present a "just get me out of here" attitude which is a bad experience for everyone involved (lawyers, LSPD, and the criminal alike). This is a huge come around to the original points discussed previously - people are too concerned with the money aspect than the RP aspect. If people would put as much effort into their RP (especially when they get caught) they might be surprised at how little they get fined or how much they can "get away with". .

You’re taking this out of context of my whole point, and again arguing that “if you RP then there is no issue”. 

The issue, as tiller points out and you have pointed out again, is that people don’t want to RP it out, and why would they?

Im not going to bother reiterating my previous post, but my suggestions have nothing to do with increasing leniency for criminals. They are for keeping the RP fresh and activities/jobs rotating. 

2 hours ago, Saja Kain said:

BadlandsRP is a city where characters are developed, stories are built every day, and the people are supposed to live their daily lives doing what they enjoy - whatever that may be. In an odd and indirect comparison, you could essentially say we're playing Sims in the GTA V world. .

I wholeheartedly agree. But the basis of our “living city” and the core roleplay mechanic is the interactions between civ, cop, and criminal (ems too ofc). Which is what i mean by “we’re playing gta”.  

2 hours ago, Saja Kain said:

Why does the city have to be tweaked to adjust someone's attitude? Why can't the person just adjust their attitude on their own? This is something I don't understand. The city has been functioning relatively well. Sure, nothing is perfect in anything, but this has been successful and remains successful today as it is built.

Naive. The nazis were also successful, and functioned for a time. Hitler also believed that “everyone else has to change the way they think”. Just because a system works and functions doesn’t mean it makes everyone happy, and the success you talk about is measured subjectively. Sure, people play and it’s active. That doesn’t mean change would not make things better, or enhance our experience. 

 

As for the cop cars, I’m aware that it’s acceptable the way it is currently, it was just a comment to get you wondering about “how things could be better or more balanced” nothing is off the table. 

 

I would love for you to, instead of attacking my ideas directly and trying to hide from the problems the city has, maybe give some of YOUR suggestions on how things could change, other than for us to “get over it and rp”. I do recall you mentioning that you aren’t against change. And you may not have any personal quarrels but you must be able to see other people’s issues so maybe you can offer suggestions to keep the thread constructive and productive. 

[Benjamin Wells]

2 hours ago, Saja Kain said:

If someone undertakes any criminal activity there is the automatic risk of getting caught. If someone is so concerned with going to jail and "wasting their time" then perhaps they should seek work elsewhere that doesn't have a potential of being put in jail. Why should the system change to be more lenient on the criminals because they get caught? That makes no sense.

I agree that there should be risks, and I agree that there being risks makes sense. The problem that you are failing to see here is that when illegal jobs become too difficult and the only RP in it is getting caught and loosing money, then why should anyone do it. Yes, people should be criminals for the RP, however, on an economy based server you have to make money.

 

2 hours ago, Saja Kain said:

There is a potential reward for jail time and RP scenarios. Requesting a lawyer, and good RP among those involved, can reduce your jail time and fines by 100%. What more reward can someone possibly want here? The problem is, as Tiller noted, that people don't want to RP it out. Their time is wasted because they've lost money and they're losing money. As such they present a "just get me out of here" attitude which is a bad experience for everyone involved (lawyers, LSPD, and the criminal alike). This is a huge come around to the original points discussed previously - people are too concerned with the money aspect than the RP aspect. If people would put as much effort into their RP (especially when they get caught) they might be surprised at how little they get fined or how much they can "get away with".

I agree that people should put more RP into encounters when they get caught. The problem is that there is often a lack of RP from the police side. As a police officer I due my best to treat every suspect with respect but, not all police do. When that happens it can be really miserable for the person getting caught and in that scenario they do just want to get it over with. Also people are only allowed to get a lawyer if they commit a felony, therefor in most incidents involving drug busts no lawyers are involved. If a person gets caught selling coke and the officer cuts their fines in half they are still going to be fined around $6,500. If this does happen the person also loses all of the drugs they are selling, so if they have 20 cocaine then they lose around 20k in total PLUS any dirty money they have. I have never clocked on PD and had less money when I clocked off, I have lost a lot of money over a robbery or drug bust on civ. Even losing money I do enjoy RP'ing as a criminal but it is really hard to RP only as a criminal which is why I don't.

2 hours ago, Saja Kain said:

"if their cars would have more of a chance in a car chase". . . I'm not going to lengthen this reply more by giving you statistical data comparing engines of every day civilians vs those of any given PD but rest assured that the vehicles you see on any PD are far superior to the majority of vehicles on the road. Yes, there are those that can match it or even surpass them but those are not the majority and maybe make up 5% - 10% of the road, if that. It's specifically why most people don't even try to run from a cop or start a police chase to begin with - they know that their car is not equipped to outrun a police vehicle. I say all that to say this - it's perfectly acceptable that PD vehicles in BLRP are superior to the majority of vehicles available to civilians.

I don't think not having enough felony evasions is the problem, what I think is the problem is how officers handle those situations. Most of the time the person does end up being caught and as you said, the police vehicles are far superior. The problem is that when the person gets caught they are looking at prison time (almost all of the time even with a lawyer) which means that they lose any weapons (which usually costs people at least 10k). If someone robs a store and then flees in a vehicle they are looking at pretty serious fines and some jail time. It is really hard for a lawyer to RP that all of the way down to a pardon. This means the person will probably lost some money, have their car impounded, lose their weapons, and spend around 10 minutes in the prison where a lot of people end up being relatively stranded (the bikes really aren't that fast). This can be really hard for someone who is new to the server and also very discouraging.

 

In summary, I agree that RP should be valued over money 100%, however, money is required to purchase a lot of the things needed for the RP which means the only RP'ing and not making money doesn't work for criminals like it does for cops. I love doing RP as a cop, as a Paramedic, and as a civilian but, I do think that some things could be improved. I would also like to say that the ticketing guide isn't the problem, the problem is the low reward and the insane risk in some situations.

Edited May 19, 2019 by Benjamin Wells

[Saja Kain]

31 minutes ago, Antonio Wright said:

I would love for you to, instead of attacking my ideas directly and trying to hide from the problems the city has, maybe give some of YOUR suggestions on how things could change, other than for us to “get over it and rp”.

I'm not attacking them. I'm just giving you my point of view to what you're suggesting. It just, by its very nature, conflicts your suggestion of change. Me, personally, I don't care about money. That doesn't mean I don't understand that there are players that not only want their money but need money to enjoy their RP goals. In saying that, though, I also understand that there are several ways (already) in the city to make money. Some are more difficult than others and take planning and forethought to ensure a profit. Again, personally, I don't care about money though. When I took a vacation from BLRP I gave a random civilian all my assets in monetary form. He was on a motorcycle and I said "Hey man! Follow me real quick!" - I gave him $250,000 for absolutely nothing. Didn't care, lol.

From my perspective, I think priorities simply need to change in any player who feels that money is the most important thing. Yes we're an economy based server. Yes things are expensive. Yes there are steep fines for criminals. With all this in consideration I, personally, do not care about money, stock, product, etc that I lose. My focus has always been the RP I experience. I've been busted at the cocaine factory multiple times. I've been in chases, arrested, shot, kidnapped, murdered. . . I can't tell you how much money I've lost a gunfight simply because I've had cash on hand and EMS couldn't get to me. The gym knows me by name because of how many times I've had to go back and regain my strength. I've had to repurchase so many weapons and ammo. I've pulled numerous vehicles out of the impound. I've had to pay steep fines and do time in jail. All this in consideration, none of it bothers me. I enjoy the RP and interaction with folks. Sometimes it's not great and sometimes it's epic. Sometimes it pisses me off because it doesn't make sense. But my approach is all around the RP.

That is the core of my idea for change. I think the Hitler analogy is a bit extreme and a stretch for direct comparison. Just because I presume that people should change their priority does not directly imply that the current state of BLRP is so far off that it shares the likes of his Nazi Party. While I may not see a problem with server in it's current state, I do not presume to say that everyone must see things my way. I'm offering a different viewpoint: a different way to try and play in the city.

 

48 minutes ago, Antonio Wright said:

The issue, as tiller points out and you have pointed out again, is that people don’t want to RP it out, and why would they?

 

47 minutes ago, Benjamin Wells said:

The problem that you are failing to see here is that when illegal jobs become too difficult and the only RP in it is getting caught and loosing money, then why should anyone do it.

In line with my perspective of things as previously described, you would/should RP it out because RP should be your priority. Not money. (My opinion).

Again, as previously mentioned, the only RP available is not just losing money. Quality RP can render jail time, fines, etc by 100%.

Now. . . with this in mind I understand that not all cops are like this. Again, I am speaking from my perspective and my opinion. When I am on duty as a cop, I tend to let folks go even when I know I shouldn't. Sometimes it's a matter of convenience. Sometimes it's because they make me laugh. Sometimes the RP is amazing, challenging, and/or engaging. If someone makes the time enjoyable, laughable, reasonable, or otherwise just involved. . . I'm more inclined to let them go with a warning, very little fines, or no fines / jail at all (even for felonies).

I believe that some criminals have a negative taste in their mouth from LSPD because they get the book thrown at them too much. But I cannot speak on their behalf. I can only speak on mine. I can recall, for instance, in the last two weeks of being on the clock there was only 1 time that I was directly strict with the suspect. Even then, he got a great deal despite being rude to me, my partner, and his lawyer. He had the mouth of a sailor and was extremely disrespectful. I understood his position, however. His character. I didn't agree with his actions but, because I appreciated his effort into his character and the story of what was happening, I dropped two misdemeanors completely, one felony, charged him $5,000, let him keep his weapon and his car. I think if more officers also approached this direction and put RP above strictly throwing the book at them or making sure "they have to win", criminals wouldn't mind getting caught so much and may not take the dramatic measures they have as of late.

[Benjamin Wells]

I understand what you are saying Saja, all I'm saying is that it wouldn't hurt anyone for there to be more of a reward in some of the illegal jobs. I am simply saying that for something that has a high risk I would expect a higher reward. Again I agree that people should put more effort into the RP and I personally try to, but part of why crime happens is that it is supposed to have a high reward (if you don't get caught). And I think especially in things like store robberies and meth that is not the case. For example; if someone get caught cooking meth(which has a low reward compared many legal jobs) they have a high chance of losing that van. It is not always up to the officer wether or not they take vehicle either so why should anyone cook meth rather than make weed. It is just things like this that I don't understand. I understand the high risk, I understand RP first, I AGREE with both of those statements. I am simply trying to say that it makes sense for there to be a higher reward. People who RP as police seem to forget that if there were no crime there would be no cop RP.

[keebler_mfn_elf]

I Have been sitting here for a few minutes and I am seeing a lot of you should RP everything out. I do agree you should RP the best that you can while interacting with people in the Cities. 

But then there is a large amount of Player (Cops Civ's and EMS) that are getting to the point that they dont want to interact with other people, and when they do its just a (make it as fast as can be thing). 

I my self gave up on all illegal activities, not because they are not fun. It is more because with the interactions that I have had in the past, when getting caught I felt that the Police Officer  just wanted to go direct to charges to minimize the RP, so they could move on to the next call, or they just power played me where I felt belittled and truly powerless against them. As a Civilian I should not have to want to avoid the cops here. I do want to interact with them, but on more fair terms and with RP that has more value. Example: Having COP running me over on a bicycle because I ran on it after circling another cop car. 

On EMS i have a great time. I get lots of people that try to give me valued RP. And I try to do the same back. But I find it becoming a normal thing that some people (not a lot) die and go AFK expecting to come back to them being picked up. Sadly I feel that you really dont value your life, "You Should". I have also been training New EMT's, and I try my best to get them as many calls as I can while training so that they can get a good feel for the RP, and to help them give others a good experience if they become severely wounded.

Civ's are a hole new story. We have players that want to grind to make money, Gangs that are mostly neutral and some that are highly Hostile. People that want to make interactions like mechanics, Tow truck operators, Cab drivers, and even Business owner and their affiliates.

Some of the problems with these group dynamics, is like someone said Gun play over RP, game mechanics make it to hard to do something so they stop doing it. Example some have stopped doing dirty laundry, I myself dont mind the new system put in place but its still to high of a risk for a business man to buy up a dealers dirty money at 10% only to lose it all, when the dealer will still got his.

Tow trucking is something that I started with when I first got into the city but then cars started to not want to load for me so I stopped and sold my truck. I had a lot of fun with it and got to meet a lot of people that way. I also used to help run a mechanic shop; but I stopped doing that when somehow people started to think that the shop was a place to hang out. (#MakeLegionGreatAgain) Now when I see others running the Mechanic shop I dont see a lot of RP, I see someone clock in and just repair cars with little to no interaction and thinking they should get big tips. Rarely do I see anyone trying to create good mechanic RP that is worth a good High Tip; And I myself will tip a mechanic that provides good/great RP well.

I am sure people can give 100's of examples of good and bad RP examples within are community, but what we need more is people stepping forward and encouraging other to (1) Values RP, (2) Value their and others Lives, and (3) Try to get away from the money grinding for a whole storm.

 

[Antonio Wright]

4 hours ago, Saja Kain said:

I'm not attacking them. I'm just giving you my point of view to what you're suggesting. It just, by its very nature, conflicts your suggestion of change. Me, personally, I don't care about money.

So how would changes to the economy negatively impact your RP experience? If it’s a non-factor for you. Why are you lobbying against changes? I love RPing. And i love this server. But my incentive for continuing to log in is for the progression of my character. That progression is reflected by my interactions and relationships with people and my bank account. 

My interactions are becoming more limited because scuba diving is non-social and is the clear money making king. If the other civ jobs were even close to the same hourly payout i would rotate through them and be able to RP more, as would other people i am sure. I already do this but everyone else is either scuba diving or hanging out and RPing somewhere within their own groups so i rarely meet new people while working jobs <- in an economy based server working jobs should open up RP scenarios naturally for civs.

If criminal jobs were more productive i would RP more crimes and wouldn’t feel like complete shit for getting booked. We can increase productivity by either increasing rewards for what we have or adding new content to help deal with the issues. 

New steps in drug trafficking for guaranteed smaller payouts between local criminals is one way to increase rewards without ruining the integrity of the current market.

 

As for a new content idea that can benefit cop, civ, ems, and gang RP:

Armoured truck deliveries. Civs work as guards (if it was in pairs it would be even better) that do deliveries to certain banks for shops or corporations for reasonable pay. Gangs can perform heists on the trucks and receive large payouts from the truck itself if successful. Police get notified of the heist and get to RP with the criminals. EMS can pick up the mess. 

We could even make it a whitelisted job to add SOPs and ensure good RP from the civ drivers. 

 

We have the beauty of FiveM’s capabilities to create a city with a thriving economy, with jobs that push people to meet each other and interact, with crime that can give realistically high rewards and carry high risk with them.

So why settle for “good enough”?

Edited May 19, 2019 by Antonio Wright

[Chan]

I’ll keep it short. Some people try to force every single player to only focus on RP and never to focus on making money. Why? This is a PUBLIC server where almost ANYONE can join. It’s impossible to fix a community that’s constantly changing and evolving, new people coming along and new “metas” being formed.

Everyone keeps saying “stop focusing on making money, start focusing on RPing, it’s an RP server”

How in the world are people supposed to afford businesses, wedding rings, apartments, super cars if we sit at 2/6 all day RPing or whatever your guy’s definition of RP is.

I personally try to balance RP and grinding money. I accept most lawyer cases knowing I’ll “waste” my time for no money gain, but I do it for fun and for the RP experience. Same with cop meetings and anything, really.

When things cost millions of dollars, don’t expect people to relay on paychecks to make a living. People will complain about the money making methods. So stop crying about it being an RP server. People still want to make money to survive fines + actually making a profit in the end of the day.

I agree and disagree with a lot of stuff said here on the thread, and the main thing I hear is “nerf scuba diving” and “people need to stop focusing on money”

But yes, scuba diving needs a nerf; and no, people shouldn’t stop focusing on making money. But people should balance RP and grinding, not just choose one.